Behavioral Expert Whose Got A Program For Your Problem with Sora Virnikoff | 255

Max Nijst: Welcome to the Fearless Happiness Podcast, where we showcase phenomenal individuals who have overcome serious traumas, life obstacles, and challenges to find their own path to fearless happiness. Listen as Max Naist invites guests from all around the world to share their experiences and spread strength, hope, and faith. This is the Fearless Happiness Podcast. And this is Max Naist. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in this world. This is Max coming to you from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. And again, I have a special and amazing guest joining me all the way on the other side of the United States from the East Coast. ⁓ but what I like to do, Sora, is have you introduce yourself, like who you are, what it is you do, and then you and I are gonna rock and roll, as I like to say. ⁓ rock and roll, sure. So my name is Sora Vertikoff. ⁓ I'm a mind and body coach. ⁓ I like to help people who have problems losing weight. I developed an easy-to-use eat and stop yourself no diet weight loss program. I was a terrible overeater. I dieted, took off the weight, put it back on, and I really was pissed off because I did everything perfectly and then I would just regain the weight. So decades ago. ⁓ I taught really tough kids in Brooklyn and I got really good at it. And I used to diet take off the weight. And one day I looked at these tough kids and I go, How come so are these kids who walk, talk, throw chairs, hang themselves in the closet, they listen to you, but food has no animate qualities. You can't stop thinking about it and you can't stop eating. So I had an idea that day. What if I stopped dieting? What would happen to me? Would I would I fall apart? You know, what ⁓ would I go crazy? But the so I got an idea to stop dieting, eat the foods I wanted. But that came with an assignment. And the assignment was that Sora, if you're gonna do this, you need to journal every thought while you eat to understand why you think about food all day and every day. So being who I am, loving challenges, I I stopped dieting and I journaled every eating experience for years before, during and after. I was obsessed With finding out why I thought about food all day. So I lost all my weight. I've lost forty pounds that I've kept off since eighty two. And then I was able to transfer my classroom management techniques to food management techniques. And that was how this no diet weight loss program was born. Worked with hundreds and hundreds of unhappy dieters at no dieting dot net. Wrote a book, a workbook on how to use this program. It became a bestseller. I won the New York City Book Award contest. And That's my story at the moment for this podcast. I love it. I love it. Well, you kind of gave us a background, right? Because, and you know, because you've gone through it, now you have that lived experience, right? Like the what do they call it? The dieting yo-yo, right? Like it's up and down, up and down. You know, you lose the weight and then you gain it back, and then you get frustrated, or you get on a diet, you don't like it, and then you go back, right? Right. 100%. How I guess my my question is, right? What was that moment that exact moment when you said, I gotta do something different, right? 'Cause you sound a lot like me and my wife, right? We love I mean, we don't diet, but it's like how do I put it? We're foodies. We love food, right? 'Cause then that's why diets don't last long with us, 'cause if it's a strict diet, the only one I'm doing now is a pretty much not a full on plant based diet, but I like it. And I've My blood sugar has dropped and I'm I'm feeling better. And it doesn't feel hard to me, right? I mean, I help her, I don't have to cook it, but I help my wife as much as I can. And but it you know what I mean? Cause I when in my younger years, when I was trying to get bigger, I was trying to do, you know, the tons of protein, you know, tons of meat and all And it then my you know, I would look at food and my cholesterol would go up, right? And then I go why did you try to get bigger? I don't understand what that means. I was trying to like get into bodybuilding, like really you know what I mean? Not big like but big like muscles and but on you know, from my dad's side of the family, right? We look at like chick you know, steak, fat, whatever looks and is really good, right? Our cholesterol climbs just by looking at it. It's just it's in the genes. But ⁓ You know, I guess what I'm getting at is like like I said, what was that moment where you just said, like enough is enough. I'm not gonna keep putting myself through this. And then I wanna help people along the way. Well, you know, I'm the kind of person, Max, I'll spend a lot of time working on reaching a goal. And I'll be very methodical and I'll do every step. You know, I was an educator, so I I'm very much about the lesson plan, aim, motivation, procedure, steps. Homework, follow up and review. So my whole life is like a lesson plan. So I did I follow the diet because at the time I thought that was the gospel. But standing in front of these thirty five kids who were really weird, to say the least, ⁓ and getting really good at breaking them of their very ⁓ negative behavior. And then doing everything perfect on a diet and failing, I Just you see, I'll commit a lot of hard work if I believe in something, but the diet was failing me. If I do everything right, Max, and then I gain the weight back, there's something not right. Right, right. Right. So I did it enough time I went to Weight Watcher, Weight Watcher, Weight Watcher, Weight Watcher. You know, the the the irony is that Weight Watcher, the gold standard of diets is now offering injections. That's why diets don't work because they're not your rules. I I explain all that. So I just looked at these kids and I said, listen, if I can stop these kids from throwing chairs and doing crazy things, then why can't I stop my thoughts from thinking about food all day? And why can't I stop eating when I want to stop eating? And I was obsessed. I had I had to figure this out because I don't like to repeat. I don't mind doing hard, hard things, but I don't like to repeat the process. Right. So I get that. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'll do anything to figure something out, but I won't repeat I won't repeat it. Right. 'Cause if you r you keep repeating it, then you that's where you lose motivation because you're like I'm doing this over and over again. You know, the anything you keep repeating and getting the same results is insanity. You know, and that is true, right? Because I learned that in my recovery of being sober over twenty two years now, right? In the beginning when my sponsor would tell me like I would do the same thing over and expect a different result, he goes, You know what they call that, right? And he's like what? And he would go, That's what they call insanity, doing that same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well, you know, they say on Facebook I'm kind of a Facebook addict and I love it. They say on Facebook a l well, they say a lot of things and ⁓ For as long as you need the lesson, it's gonna show up. Well, I had dieted enough in my life to know that something was wrong. Because I did everything perfect and then I would fail. I would lose weight and then put it back on. And also, ⁓ also there's another saying on Facebook that I live by, which is the woo ⁓ the wounding, the wound is not your fault, but the responsibility to heal is. So I am very when I I like to figure things out. I like challenges. And this was my first my first big challenge in life was learning to manage these tough kids. They were really tough. And I did a really good job. And then after I looked at them like one day and I go, Whoa, why not me? Why can't I get these food thoughts in order? So I became obsessed. But you know what? But sometimes that's what it takes, right? Like in one area you could say, why can't I do this over here, but why can't I right? And and that's kind of work. And I I don't do anything HIF A S S E D. I do everything one hundred percent. It's just like if I'm not gonna do it a hundred percent, I'm not doing it because it takes so much out of you. And I journaled every thought prior, during and after, every intake for years. It's decades later and I still write down every day what I eat. Because what I eat determines my emotional state. And I'm very keen on being self regulated the best that I can. So it's much more than food. It's about emotional self regulation as well. Right. And the foods we put in our bodies, right, help with that self regulation. My expert no. My expertise is okay. You have a bag of Oreos in your house, can you have three and put the rest away? Right. That's that's my expertise. You go out you know, my expertise is you wanna eat and stop, I can teach you that in five minutes. Right. So it's it's not necessarily what you put in your body, it's it's when to say ⁓ that's good. I'm I have what I would Right. I'm I'm not Right. Right. Instead of Three, you know, instead of ten chocolate chip cookies, I'm only gonna have two and stick with it, right? But and but wait, Max, because if you're gonna make that statement, I need to add for your listeners that if you there's no deprivation in my program, which means that I don't even talk about food in my book because food's not the problem. The problem is the behavioral relationship with you the with the actual physical food and what you put in your mouth. So Some days you may want ten cookies and on my program, that's okay. Some days you may only want two. That's okay. But you must use the two techniques because otherwise you can't eat and stop. So yes, it's important what you put in your body, but my expertise is how to stop behavior that you otherwise cannot stop. That's my expertise. Right. So you're you're the expert in ⁓ your behavior when it comes to food. I'm a behavioral expert. You got a problem, I got a program. I love it. I love it. I love it. Right. And so let me ask you. I'm gonna ask you, right? In your journey. I'm from Brooklyn, just ask. I love it. I love it. Right. So going through your journey, did you get to a point where you were extremely overweight or was it just you couldn't stop eating when you wanted to stop because of the right until you figured it out. Like what was what was that journey like? Was it from obesity to where you are today or was it just I ate and I couldn't stop eating? It was both. I mean when I started this journey I I was size sixteen, now I'm a size eight. I've been an eight since eighty two. ⁓ but I could never, never, never be who I am today or look the way I look today without my program because I couldn't eat and stop. But I will tell your listeners that when I was sixteen I made a decision. I said, I'm gonna stop dieting. I have this idea and I think I'm right. So I went out and bought a whole new wardrobe, size 16, because I said I'm going to embrace being size 16 until I figure this out. Then when I went to 14, then to 12, then to 10. And every time I lost more weight, I went out and bought a new wardrobe, whatever that means to your listeners, because I needed to embrace what I was at the moment. So it's very important on any healing journey in recovery to embrace, I believe, where you are. Because you are where you are for a reason. I love that. You are where you are for a reason. And you know, I believe the I believe you have to think the universe is for you and not against you. So if you're struggling with recovery, you need to know that you are at this point because that's your covenant with God. And you need to say, okay, this is where I am today. I'm okay with that. But how can I do things differently? How can I look at things differently? What can I risk? And be afraid, but risk. Because I want to change. I want to change more than I want to stay the way I am today. But I want you listeners to understand that where they are today is where they need to be. See, and you nailed I love that, right? Because it's like my recovery, right? I have to focus in the moment. Like what am I doing right now in this moment? You're right. Because if I here's the here's what I gathered from what you just told me, right? Because if I'm too focused on what's happened in the past, right, or I'm hyper focused on what I have to do for the future, nothing that I do in this moment's gonna matter because I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, correct? You know, Max, you hit the nail on the head. So I'm gonna take a little latitude here and tell you that I have a new book coming out just on that subject. So Yeah. I what I did was I took the process I divided ⁓ developed for weight loss and I created a positivity management program that's also a workbook that gives you immediate access to releasing negative and self-doubting thoughts so you can easily stay in your now, which I call your present. So what I like to say is Think of your moment as a present from God. It comes in a box and you have a present. Now, your job, should you take on the mission, is to open the box and experience what's in the present. But if you allow some thief to take you into your past, you're not opening your box. If you allow some thief to let your imagination think. my what's in the box. You're stealing the act of opening the present. So you're not in the present. So I am passionate about being in the present and I devi and I develop this process that gives you immediate access to the present. And the reason I feel so passionate about being in the present is because if you find tools and techniques to stay present, you will become your best self, your most authentic self. without your past drama, without your future worrying, you're really present. You're ready to open the box. And keeping opening that box, you will have your best life. Yeah, I I couldn't agree more, right? Because I I believe that, you know, God gives us this present, which we call the moment, right? And we're supposed to embrace it, right? And enjoy it. Right. And and This is what I tell myself. Is I if I'm too focused on what I did in the past, then I'm kind of like slapping God in the face and like his present doesn't matter, right? Exactly. And the same with the future, right? But I agree with you because I know when I'm totally focused on what I'm doing, like, you know, for work, if I'm in that moment, right? And I'll tell on myself because I do get focused on what I'm doing in that present moment. I was a little late with here with Sora, but I get. I like you said, I get it done and I don't have to go back and fix it because I was rushing, thinking about, you know what I mean? My interview with you and and tens of other things that I gotta get done today, right? I understand about tons of other things, but I also had a punch a clock, so I'm very punctual. You know, because I believe my word is my bond. I I just live I like to live a very clean life. I'm a cleaner and my word is my bond. So f if I I mean just in c if I say I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. Because if I don't say I'm gonna do it, I'm not doing it. And my word is very important to me. Because that's all I have. Is my word. Absolutely. I agree. I agree. Right? And ⁓ so I keep my word even if I'm a little late. Like but like I said, I apologize for that. But I get what you're saying, you know what I mean? 'Cause I think that's when we receive the gifts of whatever we're doing when we're present in that moment. You know what I mean? You only only receive when you're in present. When you start thinking about your past or imagining your future, you're actually letting your present go down the slide. Right. Now if you constantly overthink whether it's food or whatever You constantly let that present go down the slide. ⁓ my God, when you leave this life, you never had a real life. Right. You were so busy on the seesaw or you were so busy on the swing. Right. That you never were really present. I'm passionate about being present because I've seen what it can do if you're not. Right. And that it sounds like that's what helped you change, you know, your Eating habits was being present in the moment at that time. Well part of it, right? No. What h what no. What I did was very laborious. What I did was when I made up my mind that day to stop dieting and to eat what I wanted, I also started noting everything I ate every day and journaling every experience, what I was thinking, when I could stop, why I couldn't stop. So it was a double process. It ran parallel. I started creating charts of what I ate, how much I ate, and could I stop. And then at the same time I was journaling why I was eating. I was obsessed with understanding why I thought about food all day. It was a very complex project, but I have no regrets because I healed myself and I've helped hundreds and hundreds of unhappy dieters. There's no easy way through, Max. You know, when you decide that you want to get better, there's no easy way. But I knew for me. For whatever it's worth, I wasn't going to any experts. I've had enough. I was gonna do this myself. You were gonna become the expert. ⁓ and I have. Right. I love hey, that's I I love it. But you know, you said it, and that's kind of like your story and mine parallel, right? When I made the decision to go, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not gonna put drugs in my system or or alcohol, right? And little did I know, but my mentors and my sponsor all said, you know what? It's simple, but it's not easy. You're gonna have to do some work. Correct. Right. Right. And the first thing he told me, right, he goes, One Max, one thing you need to change. And I'm like, ⁓ cool, what's that? He goes, Everything. Right. And I'm like, Okay. Right. ⁓ my gosh. I'm so I'm so personally proud of you because I know what it takes. I know what it takes. Believe me, I know what it takes. And you should really celebrate yourself because I know what it takes. Well here and that's why I'm very proud and and happy for you, right? 'Cause like you you just explained to the audience what it takes to make a change. Right. You got focused, you you made sure you were gonna find out how to do it through your own work by journaling everything you ate, what you felt like, what you ate, like all that stuff. And what you know, and yeah, I think you'll agree with me, Sora, is right, like this day and age is so Like when you look on Facebook and everything, all the social media, everything's about instant gratification, right? And that's what got me in trouble, right? 'Cause I wanted to fix it and I wanted it yesterday, you know? I y I understand because I wanted the food yesterday as well. So Well here's the thing. I will I what I want to share with your listeners is that the problem is that anything that's instant is really no good. Right. It's no good. Because nothing that's good is instant. You know, I have a saying that I ended my book, my weight loss book in, and this is what I tell I wrote a book and at the end I I just ended it this way. And this is how I lived my life. Inch by inch, anything's a cinch, yard by yard, life is hard. So I'm an incher. I'm an incher. There are times I just want to just do this, do that. No, because and I also have a saying that's been with me for decades that really helps me, and that is No process, no product. No process, no product. So I will there's no instant healing. There's no instant getting better. It's a day by day, moment to moment conscious decision as to what you're going to do given your situation. And it's really false propaganda. There's nothing instant. Nothing. Nothing. No. Nothing. But you see the thing is when you're addicted, you want it now. You want it now. Right. But now you want it believe me, I know. Right. You want it now. But the trick is how is that now position you in terms of your future? How does that now position you in terms of your future? So I really believe if you have any addiction, and believe me, I understand, if you have any addiction, you have to be passionately committed to your healing. It has to be the most important thing in your life. There's no middle ground. You're either in full full f you're either in a hundred percent or no. See, and I I'm I knew this was going to be a great conversation, right? Because you nailed it again, right? That that's what I was taught. And that's why I love having guests like yourself put that out there to let people know, right? Like they're that's why we we hear or see it all over, you know, TV. Like all this processed food that's you could stick in the microwave and get it out in a minute, and you know, it's not good for you, right? Like good old-fashioned cooking your food and Being intentional about what you cook and eat and all that stuff. You said the magic word, Max, and you said one of my magic words that I like that you In this life, if you want to be successful, I mean this is my opinion. You must be intentional. Absolutely. If you're not intentional yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because then you'll wind up with nothing. You have to be intentional. You have to say to yourself, I have this problem. What's my next step? Okay, I'll I'll get help. When are you gonna get help? Okay, I don't wanna get it this week. Write down, I'll get help in a month. But commit to something. Right. You know, I'm not saying getting I'm not saying that healing is easy. It's not. But it's a choice, it's a conscious decision. You have to be so disgusted with your life. You have to be so disgusted that you're willing to do anything to get better. And I will do anything to get better. Right. And I love that, right? Because that that kind of puts it out there for every anything, not just addiction, not just for food. I mean, yes, I work in the addiction field and I deal with all kinds of different addictions, right? But it's true. Like the people that succeed that I've noticed like myself, right, when I'm as a counselor are the ones that come to me and go, I am done. I can't do this anymore. You tell me what I need to do, and I'm gonna do my best to do it. Right. So ⁓ Max, those are the all listen, I have a saying, you can only bring a horse to water, you can't make ⁓ drink. Okay. I love that one. And I will tell you, ⁓ of I taught for over thirty years. I've had hundreds and hundreds of clients, weight loss, non weight loss, and I will tell you the only people that are successful are the people who are determined to get better. And they do the work. You see, there's no free lunches. I come from Brooklyn. There's no free lunches. You gotta do the work. And I'm not saying that because I'm a former educator. I'm saying that because there is no other way. You have to get down and dirty. You have to say, I don't like my life. I'm willing to do anything to change it. And that's it. Well, if you look back in history, right, like on I like to say the greats, right? If you listen or read their stories, they got down and dirty and did the work. 'Cause Right. That's why they've helped us make changes. Cause we have those examples of people who have been down at the bottom and said, I that's enough. Now I'm gonna do the work and I'll show you how I did it. Right. And you know, and this is why it's such an honor to have you here. And I I I just I love your personality, right? You're just everybody, I mean, you'll see her on the YouTube, but the ones who are watching listening, right? She's got a big smile. She's just got so much energy, everybody. And this is what I want to bring the world is people like yourself that have gone through the lived experience and say you gotta do the work, right? And luckily for me, I surround myself with people that way, right? 'Cause they say you're a direct r reflection of the five people you hang out with most. Exactly. You see, the thing is I under look, getting better is hard work, but it's worthwhile work. Yes. So on the on the one hand it it is hard. Right. But on the other hand, you're investing in yourself. And you know what? I I hate to sound corny, but your best investment is yourself, not your mother, not your father, not your wife, not your kids. Yeah, you are chief CEO of you. Okay? And you have to make a decision. Do I want to let alcohol, drugs, food, whatever it is, it's the same thing. It's it's stuff you can't control. Correct. Go get help. I'm not saying it's gonna be easy. And you know what? It's been decades since I've healed myself, but every day I use my program. Every day I look at my thoughts. Every night I have a gratitude journal. Every morning I meditate. I because when I leave this earth, I wanna know I did my best. You know, when I was a little girl, my mom would say to me, I don't care if you get a D, but it has to be your best. So I have this voice in my head. Where I need to do my best. Now, everyone has a different best. But think about it, guys. One day we're all gonna leave. Do you wanna feel you did your best? Or do you want to reincarnate your soul and be left with what you left with? Right. I I I just think it's really important to ask yourself how you wanna leave. You know, Tony Robbins, he did the rocking chair test, like. What are you gonna say to yourself in that rocking chair? Well, sure as hell, I'm not leaving with a food problem. So Right. I I'm with you, right? Because I I want to be able to look back and say, Well, you know, I'm proud of you, Max, because you gave your best and you didn't And I know you're giving your best, Max, because I can feel it and I I know people who have been there and are doing their best. You you just got every day as a challenge. You just do your best. Absolutely, right. And I I You know, when I was younger I used to like my mom would tell me these kind of, you know, to get me moving in the right direction. And you know, when I'm sixteen, you roll your eyes like mom, you don't know what you're talking about, right? But but luckily for me before she passed, I got to thank her for all of that. Like ⁓ that's really that makes me want to cry because you know right. Yeah, she was. I and it took for me to go through what I went through and her, you know, hurting her and my family and but to be able to You needed that. You needed that. Those were your teachers, you know. I like Absolut. I think of life as a classroom. Life to me is a classroom. And you had your classroom and you did whatever you did and you needed to do that to get you would not be where you are today hadn't you done those things. Right. And you know, and I like to share this with you and the audience I have before, right? The two biggest gifts I ever gave my mom was one, my sobriety, right, for fourteen years before she passed. And two, and s a mentor and a speaker I heard one time made me really think about it, right? But for fourteen years my mom was able to put her head on a pillow and go to sleep and not worry where her son was, you know. But you know that every mother, like you know, growing up, when I would go out, my mom the my mom would always say, Knock on the door when you come home. You know, this is how mothers are. You know, mothers that's being a mother. Right. But you know what I mean? And those are gifts that you you'll you'll never forget, right? Because she reminded me of that. I come from a different kind of background in the sense that, you know, if I didn't get an A or if I didn't do the you know, I would I I every my house was different, you know. So they had you know, I was held to certain standards and if I I was always afraid that if I didn't meet those standards, that I would be punished. And I wouldn't Right. And and and and actually not having your mother or father l you know, say nice things to you if you didn't get a good grade was a big deal in my house in growing up. So I so I I wanted to make them proud. But ⁓ but there were other things obviously, you know, that were not so wonderful. But you know what? I I like to look at my parents who are no longer here. I always think of the good I got from them, not the bad, because it's the bad that let me to let me to do certain things. But, you know, they did the best they could. That's my thing on my parents now. My parents had limited awareness. They did the best they could. And I'm grateful they had me. And when I think about them, I choose to think about the good things and I move on. And I think that's how we all should be. You know what I mean? Not focus on 'cause we get if we focus on the negative, I mean we're not gonna you'll addicted the rest of your life to whatever you're addicted to because you're using the addiction not to feel the stuff that went on. So you might you know, y you know, par I think part of the healing of any addiction is sitting with painful stuff. But the but the good news is that when you find help, whatever that help is, sitting with those painful thoughts isn't as painful. Right. But it helps you become the better version of yourself and you get better every day when you learn how to sit with that and feel it. Yeah, writing sit with it and then have tools exactly. You know, everyone heals differently. ⁓ I have there's no one stop shop. That is true, right? That's why I j trust me, Sora, I used to be that counselor when I first got sober and or got my certification and I tease about this, right? I would sit with a client and I'm like, ⁓ if you don't do the steps and you don't go to meetings, I can't work with you 'cause I can't watch you die and set I used to be the same way. I used now I I'm totally the opposite. Me I'm same here. I'm I'm like, go ahead, do whatever you want. I'll be here when you get back. You know what? I have conferences with people who I give a consultation and if they're not ready, they're not ready. You see, I'm okay with that because I I understand my own challenge is I'm not always ready. I think what's happened to me is like when you are a coach or a counselor, you realize nobody can do what they're not ready to do. And I'm so okay with that. I Max, I'm so okay with that. Well and you have to be, I think, for stuff like what we do, because if you don't, you're gonna drive yourself crazy because I I know I didn't it's not happening. I choose to be sane. No. That's what I'm saying. I choose to be sane too. Like I'll tell them. I go, you do it your way. I'll be here if you need my help, right? I'm not gonna tell you how to do it. I'm just trying to share what I did and what works, and but you go ahead, you know, and I'll be here to hold your hand. They're lucky to work with you, Max. They're really lucky to work with you. But what I believe is God made us guy. We're guides, nor you know what I mean? I think we guide people through our experience, right? We don't tell ⁓ But see, here's how my okay, I'm gonna tell you something, Sorb, right? My sponsor, I love him to death. He's been my sponsor for almost 23 years. Never changed. He's been my guiding light when it comes to my recovery, right? He saved my life. But ⁓ you want to hear something funny, is I called him. Yoda, right? 'Cause remember in the Star Wars movies, you know, Yoda would tell Luke, Luke, there is there's do or do not, right? There's not you get what I'm saying? But he would always suggest. He never yelled at me. He never told me I had to do anything. Right. And he just kinda guided me, right? And when I made a mistake, he was there to go, Okay, let's try something different, right? And ⁓ max, you're very, very you know, you're very blessed that you had this gentleman. You very I mean what he did for you, what he does for you, you can't pay him enough. I'm just telling you. Well, and that's what how I feel l getting to know you in this conversation, right? Is the people are blessed to have you because they you get to help them see things in a different light, right? Cause sometimes we need a perspective change and, you know, 'cause sometimes like they tell me, right, left up to my own devices, I might get high again, right? But I d I always choose to go Hey, this is the thought I got going on. His name's Daryl. What do you think? And I'll listen, right? Because I may not see something that he could see. And he'll tell me or suggest, well, maybe you should do it this way or whatever. And I usually go, okay, because he's been right for almost 22 years of my life, right? But I call him my Yoda because I always see Daryl, I'm going to walk in your office or your house. You're going to be floating in the middle of the room with this green aura telling me, Max, use the force, Max, use the force, right? But that. journey. See, I I'm so grateful for my journey because it's led me to here to hear today with you to hear your journey and how you help people change their lives, right? And and not, you know, have how do I put this, right? Like I'm getting goosebumps because I could just imagine working with you and you're telling them, you know, not telling ⁓ but going, This is what I you think you should do and you know and you know what? I never tell anyone what to do 'cause you know what, Max? No one's telling me what to do. There you go. No one's telling me what to do. ⁓ I don't tell people what to do. I offer them choices. There you go. That's what I was trying to get at. You offer choices. I I teach by choice. I I first of all I have a very specific ⁓ weight loss program. You know, I teach them the program online or in person, and then they can choose their coaching package. But I have a very specific step by step. We go through it. I have them practice. I answer their questions. But I will tell you that when I was educating kids, this is how I did it. I lost control of my class the first five years. I had a nervous breakdown. Went to a psychiatrist. I said, Listen, I can't do this. You know what he said to me? Don't ask me. I couldn't do it, you know? So after those five years, I read every book on Russian education, French education, Chinese education. I said, How do these people keep the Well, I figured it out and I got really good at it. I never yelled after those first five years. This is what I would do. If I had a kid pick up a chair and he wanted to throw it, I would say this to him. Okay, I see that you picked up a chair and you want to throw it. You have a choice. You can throw the chair and then I will overnight a letter to your mother and she will probably come up and go to the principal. Or you can put the chair down and then I never saw you pick up the chair. Now no one ever spoke to them that way and they always put the chair down because they thought I was crazy. Okay. All right. Or like I had kids who I had a kid who got under you know, it's very s he went under the desks. I mean these and he became a bird, you know, he started making bird sounds. He was five years old. And I but that was nothing compared to the ones that wanted to jump out the window or hang themselves in the class. I had a kid who went to the window and said, Yeah, because he said I gave him a nervous breakdown because he couldn't control himself. So I he said he got on the chair, he was gonna jump out the window. And I said to him, Okay, I want you to think about this. If you jump out the window and they can find your mother, who's gonna ride in the ambulance with you? Me. I said, and if when you get to the hospital if they can't find your mother, who's gonna sit in the emergency room with you? Me. So you need to think about this before you jump. So he got off the chair, he told me where to go, and then I never saw him again. They took him out of my room. But the mother came up the next day and said, He was never like this until he had me as a teacher. No, he was a sick kid, but the mother was in denial. So so that I teach through choice. In my in my daily life, even everything is a choice. See, and you just taught me something very important, right? In in my practice is I'm gonna I'm gonna learn to I mean, I don't tell ⁓ what to do either, but I'm gonna learn to get better at giving them choices so they can make an educated Decision on where they want to go with their life, right? So thank you for teaching me that. ⁓ my God. It's so like the next time you have someone and you want to tell them something, you don't tell them to do it. You just say, I'm gonna give you a choice you can do from column A or column B, and then we'll see what happens based on your choice. I love it. I love it. Right? Because you just put the power back on them and that's the powerful thing right there, because then they're gonna look at You or me and go, wow, they just gave me a choice. I get to decide what I want to do. I I have no interest in being in control, Max. I'm very selfish. You can do whatever you want as long as you've had a choice. If you if you want I don't want to be in charge. I the only way I want to be in charge is to give you the choice because I don't want to use any of my energy to be caught up in your decision. Right. I love it. I this has been awesome so far, but let's let's talk about your book a little bit so the audience can have an idea of what your book, you know, because I I I'm gonna ask that question is like if you want to work with ⁓ Sora, where can we find you? So give the audience a little bit ⁓ of insight into your book and what it's about so they can make a informed decision. Okay. So I'm at www.nodieting.net. And my book is called Eat What You Want, Stop When You Want, A No Diet Weight Loss Program. It's a workbook. It's 200 pages. It's interactive. And you can learn the program on your own or you can work with me. So what my program does is this. Do you mind if I just share with your listeners why diets don't work and then how my work is different? Can I do that? Absolutely. So What p I'd like to give your audience an understanding of why diets don't work in a very simple way. So I want your audience to think about a diet as a clock. Let's start at twelve o'clock. So you decide you want to lose weight, you're taking a cruise, you have a boyfriend, you want to get healthy. So you go online and there's like a hundred and fifty diets. And what I like to say is if the if diets work, why would there be a hundred and fifty? Okay? Some you think So then what is a diet? A diet Is c made up with three people. You got a marketer, a psychologist, and a nutritionist. They decide, hey, listen, our people can't manage when they think about food. Let's decide what they can eat and lose weight. Let's we're gonna decide the food they should think about and how they're gonna lose weight and stay healthy. So you pick a diet at twelve o'clock. Let's say you pick Weight Watches because Now they're going Weight Watchers now advertises that they'll inject you. So if Weight Watchers were so great, they wouldn't now be offering injections. I rest my case. So twelve o'clock you pick Weight Watchers. So then you're three now you go on a diet, you learn the program, you follow the rules. Three o'clock, you're good, good, good. Yay, I'm following the rules of Weight Watchers. Yay, I'm doing what they say. I'm a really good person. I have high self-esteem because I'm following Weight Watchers. Now let's get to six o'clock. That could be a day later, two days later, a week later. ⁓ my god, I can't take this. I just want another slice of bread. I just want another piece of cheese. I just want three more Oreo cookies. So then you start eating the cheese, you start eating the Oreos, and you can't stop. Well guess what? You did the only thing that you could do to take back control from the people who decided what you can eat the diet, that external control. So really you really by binging on a diet, you did the only thing you could do to take back the control. But the problem with the binge is then you beat yourself up. ⁓ my God, look what I just did. I can't rules. I'm such a bad person. I keep my house nice, my family's nice, but I can't keep food out of my mouth. But the but the truth is you did you did a good thing. You took back the control. So nine o'clock. ⁓ my God, I can't trust myself around food. I I gotta go back to the diet. So 12 o'clock, you go back to the diet, knowing full well in the back of your mind that there's another binge coming on. So why don't diets work? Hello, they're not your rules. They're not your rules. They're made up by three people in a room that get paid a lot of money to tell you, don't trust yourself, eat what we tell you. When you're walking around wanting chocolate cake all day, they're telling you to eat cottage cheese. How is that ever gonna work for more than a period of time? You're gonna want the chocolate cake. So that's why diets don't work. They're not your rules. So here's the good news. I love it. Here's the good news. I developed a program. I'm gonna teach your listeners right now one of the techniques called the green technique to show them how they can eat whatever food they want and know that they can stop themselves. So I want everybody to lift up their pointer finger and I want you to think it's a piece of pizza. All right, so this is a piece of pizza. You're in SORAS No Diet Weight Loss Program. Before you can eat this pizza pizza, you have to ask yourself two questions. You have to ask yourself how much is enough and how much is too much? So for teaching purposes, I'm gonna say that half the slice for me is enough and half is too much. I want everyone to think how much is enough and how much is too much. Okay, I want you to physically Tear apart, not your finger, the pizza and separate the amount that's enough from the amount that's too much called your marker. So now you have two pieces of pizza in front of you. You have the amount that's enough, and then you have your marker, the amount that you decided was too much. Now I want you to pretend to eat the amount you decided was enough, that half how ma however much that was. So I'm pretending to eat my hat, that's enough. Now I may never eat my marker. Because that marker told me that I gave myself enough pizza and I can stop. Now that you say, but Sora, I want more. I want more. So I'm gonna say pick up your marker for me the other half of the pizza. Ask yourself again, how much is enough and how much is too much? Then separate, physically separate those two amounts, eat the amount you decided was enough, but never your marker. People with a weight problem, no matter how much they eat, nothing is enough because they haven't decided how much is enough before they eat. This one technique will let you consistently physically determine how much is enough and how much is too much before you put the food in your mouth. So you're in total control. Once you see I have enough, I have enough, I have enough. ⁓ my god, I can have enough and stop. I can have enough in stock. Guess what? You're not gonna wanna eat as much. Because right now nothing is enough. And now enough. Enough. I can stop. Enough. You're gonna think less about food. So not only are you gonna lose weight, but you're gonna think less about food, which is really the problem. I love it. 'Cause it puts you in control. You're in total control. And I guess when you're telling yourself that's enough, that other part doesn't even look good anymore because you've already had enough. Well, it doesn't. But Let's say your your listeners want an ice cream bar. You can take your ice cream bar, ask yourself the same thing. How much is now let's say you want the whole bar. Just scrape off a little with your nail. Same with a chocolate bar. Scrape off a little. You must see your marker. Your marker is what gives you control. I had enough. I can provide myself with enough food. Right. And I can stop. No marker, you're in trouble. I love it. I love it. There's a there's a saying ⁓ that I learned in in the program, right? Where ⁓ w well how did one is one is it, one is too much and a thousand's not enough. Exactly. You know, Max, that that's so true because until you ma until you decide how much is enough. Nothing is ever enough. That my all of my work is based on the idea of enough. You see, people we suffer because we don't think we can give ourselves enough. But the truth is that we are the enough we're the enough machine. You know, if you make a hundred dollars a week and and you say, I don't have enough money, I'm gonna say to you, Well, how much of the hundred dollars do you put in the bank? If you put in if you say ninety dollars is enough. And ten dollars is my marker, you're now you have enough money because you decided. Right. It it has to do with everything. It has to do with money. It has to do with food. It you know, it has to do with classroom management. How much is enough? What can I take from the kids? What can't I take from the kids? I don't mind if they eat in the classroom and they think I don't see because I want to eat, but they have to stay in their seats and they have to be quiet. So how much is enough? Like you counsel people. You have to ask see, enough for me as a counselor is providing choice. So I provide the choice of teaching these two techniques and giving you the chance to totally control your food intake without dieting. You give people the choice not to take drugs by giving them the choice of how to manage whatever they need to manage. But I can't make anyone do anything. I can just give them the tools. Exactly. I can't make anybody get sober, but I could say here's the tools to do it. I'm not you know what? People used to say, Do your kids learn, Sora? I'd say I presented the material. Right. I Max, I'm I present material. What people do with it is their choice. I can just tell you that people that want to get well do the program. And people that don't want to be self-defined and want to follow If a person wants another to follow a diet, they're always gonna be the victim. You're the victim of the diet. So absolutely. So you have to decide do I want to be the victim of a diet where I'm told what to eat and what I can't have, especially for women, you know? We're always told you can't have this, you can't have that, no, no, no, no. No, you can have anything you want, but you have to decide how much is enough. Right. And you see that all over the place where they tell you you can't it's all it starts with that, you can't have this because it's gonna do this, or it can't have that, or you can't have this, or blah, blah, blah. Well, I I love what you do and I've had such a good time with you today. I love it, ⁓ Sora. I mean, you've taught me a lot. Like I can use some of your principles with some of my clients now. So that's a great thing. I've learned so much from you today, right? And use that in in in my life to reverse my type two diabetes, which I'm in the process of doing. So well, excellent. You know, really it all has to do with three things. How how much do you want what you say you want? What are you willing to do to get what you want? That's right. And and are you committed to the journey? So ⁓ I've really enjoyed this, Max. I think you're an amazing guy. I know what it takes to do what you've done and what you continue to do. And I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. ⁓ thank you, Sora. Same back as I say, ditto, my friend, ditto. So now I'm gonna ask you the questions that I teasingly tell you I forget questions. So we're gonna start with fearless, right? Going through what you've been through in your life and then your diet journey and all that teaching. What does fearless mean to you today? And how does that show up in your life on a daily basis? I I was raised by a mother who lived on fear. She was a very fearful person and everything was fearful. So I was taught I so I my default will be fear because it's what I was raised with. I I and I understand fear intimately. So this is how I deal with fear. Everything you want is on the other side of fear. And I know that. I know that. You know, as I was writing my book, I was so terrified that I was sitting with my journal writing, I'm so scared to do this. I'm so scared to write to keep writing this book. You know, what if I write the book? What if people say this? What if people say that? But I knew, Max, I knew I couldn't leave this earth without writing the book. Like I knew Okay, that's number one. Fear is a very physical feeling for me. It's a very physical thing. But you know what I say now? I'll be damned. You see, I I'm still afraid, but I what I do is ⁓ I just bought a ring. ⁓ I just bought a spinner ring, Max. You would li and it says ⁓ fe Faith over fear. And ⁓ I just bought it on Amazon and So I'm very big on faith over fear. I have that sign in my kitchen. Now I'm wearing my spinner ring. It says faith over fear. I I say if God is for me, who is who could be against me? That's what I say. If God is for me, who could be against me? And if they don't talk to me and they don't like me and they don't love me, at least I love myself. I had a sign on my chair for so long, Simone Biles. She made the cover of Time or Newswake and what she said on the cover was, I chose myself. Max, I choose me. And whoever I have to lose and whatever I have to lose, I'm willing to lose it. Cause I choose me. There you go. That's the best choice you can make. I love it. That leads me into the next question. Happiness. As you can see, I put a Y in there and I did that for a reason, right? Knowing I put the Y in happiness, what does happiness mean to you today, Zora? And how does that show up in your life on a daily basis? Well, I have a very strong Voltaire said, I choose to be happy because it's good for my health. And since my health is number one, I do every day choose to be happy. I say I get up and I meditate and then I go, Okay, let's do this, Sora. Now, I'm also very structured in my approach to my day, to my week and there are times I don't feel like it. But You know what happiness means to me doing what I say I'm gonna do? I love it. Happiness means to me doing what I say that I can do because really I want to be my first ally. I think I'm very committed to being my best friend. I love that. And and so happiness means to me that I said I was gonna do it and I did it. And if I didn't do it, I must journal why I didn't do it and then I must rethink it. I cannot let it go because if you say you're gonna do something and you don't do it, guess who suffers? Only you. Right. Only you. So I'm I'm beholden to no one but me. So it makes because I'm accountable to me and that makes me happy, knowing that, you know, if not now then when. If not you then who? You know? Right. Exactly. I love it. Well, like I said, this has been an amazing time, Sora. Thank you so much. So if my audience wants to get a hold of you, right? There are people struggling with their diets and ⁓ I just found the person. How do they get a hold of you? And where can they find your book? Okay, so they can code nodieting.net, go to my ⁓ contact page, we can set up an appointment, we'll chat on the phone, we'll share some more information, I'll learn more about you because I want to hear your story and then we can make a decision together. And then if they want to get my book outs on Amazon and it's Eat What You Want, Stuff When You Want, a No Diet Weight Loss Program. And if I will make an an offer to your listeners, if they buy the book and they read it and they have one to three questions and they email me at my website, I will answer them for them. I love it. Well, like I said, you know, this has been such an amazing time. I had such a great con this is awesome, Sora. You've taught me a lot. Thank you. That's see, I'm this is always a win win for me because I one, I get to have a great conversation, and two, I always learn something from my guests. And today I learned a lot from you. So I I really appreciate you and I'm grateful that you are here today. But you're not quite off the hook just yet. Now I get to ask you my favorite question that I ask all my guests, right? And it goes like this. So, Sora. What is the one piece of advice you could give my audience to help them grow as human beings and become better people? Give it to God. I love it. Just give it to God. You're not in control. We're never gonna be in control. God's in control. Find a way to make that happen in your life. Put all your burdens to God. Stay positive. Stay positive. Understand understand this perspective. Understand when you feel stuck, there's another side. Ask yourself when you're feeling stuck, what's the other side? And wait for your answer to arrive. There's always another side. Both choices might be very difficult, but You do have a choice. And then give it to God. And keep a journal. You know. Keep a journal. You know, you have to read it. You don't have to read it. People say, I don't want to read it. Don't read it, but write. Right. Right. That's that's what I tell some people. You know, I go, the journal's not for reading, it's just for you to write your thoughts down. Thank you. It's not I never listen, I've been journaling forever. I never read what I write. But at this point I never do. But at this point every night I do do a brain dump. I do I brain dump because I don't want to go to bed with it. So I write down everything that happened in numbered format. And then if I'm have a challenge, I write down the next step because I'm all about the next step. So I love it. Well, like I said, this has been a great time, Sora. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah, we could probably go for another hour or two. Easy, right? 'Cause she's taught us so much, audience. So I hope you're you've paid attention and as much as I have. Well, it's an honor, Max, because I know I know I don't know what you've been through, but I understand the struggle and the journey and I have the deepest respect for you. ⁓ thank you. Well, you heard everybody. If Sora made you think, if Sora taught you something, if Sora made you smile, and Mike Bamus, if Sora made you go, Hmm, I like that. Please go to iTunes and leave a five star review. And come join us over here on the YouTube channel where you can actually see Sora and I have this amazing conversation. And again, good morning, good evening, or good afternoon, back whatever, wherever you are in this world. This is Max from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. Until next time. Are you tired of being weighed down by life's traumas and struggles? Join the Fearless Happiness Lifestyle and let us guide you toward a brighter future. Explore our past podcast episodes and get a copy of the Fearless Happiness book to ignite your inner strength. If you or someone you love is battling addiction or facing challenges related to unresolved trauma, know that we are here for you. Visit maxnates.org, M-A-X. N-I-J-S-T.org and take the first steps toward finding your fearless happiness. Thank you for listening. This has been a production of Fearless Happiness.