Horsewoman Who Dreams To Help You Get Your Spark Back with Alicia VanderGriend | 265

Max Nijst: Welcome to the Fearless Happiness Podcast, where we showcase phenomenal individuals who have overcome serious traumas, life obstacles, and challenges to find their own path to fearless happiness. Listen as Max Naist invites guests from all around the world to share their experiences and spread strength, hope, and faith. This is the Fearless Happiness Podcast. And this is Max Naist. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in this world. This is Max from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. Coming to you again today with another special and amazing guest. Yes, I know I can hear it in the background. Max, you say that all the time. But in my defense, I'm always correct, right? Because if you listen to the podcast, all my guests have been amazing and very special to me. So anyway, I have Alicia Vandegren coming to you today with me. but what I like to do, Alicia, is have you introduce yourself to my audience, like who it who you are, what it is you do, and then you and I, like I said, are gonna rock and roll. Yeah, fantastic. Well, I live up here in Squim, Washington. It is pretty much the most northern little rural farm town that you can get to in the north part of Washington State. And if you ba walk about a mile down from my house, you see the Strait of Wan de Fuca. And then just right over across the water is the city of Victoria and British British Columbia on Vancouver Island, like that southern city there. So it's really beautiful, the Olympic National Park and trees. And so that's kind of the setting of where I'm coming from. I'm the founder of Cowgirl Life Co. So as you imagine, I have been riding horses for 44 years. And during the that time like I have done a lot of different things. but everything's kind of centered around project management and I've done marine biology and chased whales around the world. And then last year I broke my leg and I decided that I just couldn't do the corporate research job anymore and go chase the money in a way that's just wasn't feeling right anymore. And so I had been in a yoga instructor for a long time and I decided I'm gonna launch off and do yoga for horsewoman. But what I have found is that there is a real need for coaching and like planning for horsewomen's lives. Like once you get to a certain age as a woman, like all of these different thoughts pop into your head, like, can I still do this? What is my life gonna look like with my horse? What is what is it gonna look like? So and that kind of stemmed also because I got hurt. And so I had to recover. And 12 weeks after that, I was on another horse competing at one of the largest shows for Mustangs in Las Vegas, Nevada. And so I know that the yoga and meditation and the Ayurvedic practices that I do were part of that mindset that helped me get there. And so now I just want to help other horsewomen that are super excited about their horse life but are a little still a little bit scared or maybe something happened. Just gonna overcome those over the Come those fears so that they can be happy. Well, one, you got me already with the horse thing, right? Because my my wife used to ride when she was younger too, right? And she used to what did you call the barrel racing? That's what she used to do when she she loves horses, right? So I I kind of promised her, you know, one day before we we go up to the big farm on the sky, right? We're gonna have I'll get you a horse, right? Because she loves horses. but I was introduced to horses through what I do in the addiction field, right? Where I worked, excuse me, with with teens at one point and part of their treatment was equine therapy. Okay, yeah. And it you know, I found it so fascinating, Alicia, like it's like the horses knew, like which Like even me, if I was in a bad mood, like it would look at me and kind of like, don't get near me kind of look. But the kids, it was it was amazing. Like if it knew you were a jerk, it'd let you know, like in no certain uncertain terms, right? Like the kid, I'm not going near it. Well, 'cause that horse is sensing something about you. And they're like they'd look at me like, Max, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. But then the lady would back me up and go, yeah, these horses are very intuitive and they know, right? Yeah. They do. And you know, luckily for me, and I'll tell you a story after, but you know, my neighbor has a few horses and and she lets us take the grandkids over there and go pet and you know, go it it is yeah, and she brings us eggs once in a while, like lots of eggs. So, you know, I don't have to go to the store. But, you know, it's very interesting this first time I've had someone who's, you know, been involved with horses, right? 'Cause From what I've seen, you know, not only on television, right? But like through equine therapy with the kids when I work w at this treatment center, is like horses can be very th therapeutic for us humans, right? Because I heard their personalities, right? For at least from what I saw are a lot like ours, right? They're either in a bad mood one day or like don't you're not gonna ride me kind of thing, or, you know, they want a lot of love, you know, brush me. yeah, that feels really good. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. But let's talk about some of those challenges that you kind of brought up, right? Like that helped shape who you are and have put you in the position you are today to help you, like you said, cow cow women, let's call them, right? Like horsewomen and help them achieve, you know, what you have done. Yeah, for sure. yeah, I I guess like I just came out as a baby and like my first word was horse. And so I've been that girl my entire life. Like all the ponies, toys, everything. And I just sort of they my parents would take me to these pony rides and I would ride and I would ride and I'd ride when was like three. And I finally got like my very, very first horse when I was twelve. And I did everything on horses, like literally everything. I showed at like the biggest shows. I went a rodeo. I did everything. I fore H and high school and college rodeo, amateur and then pro rodeo. And after college a little bit, I ended up getting we're getting an arena built and the guy who's building it is calling me. Okay. So sorry about that. But the so like after after I graduated from college, I had this really kick ass horse. Like he's just so amazing. And his name was Tricky. And after college we rodeoed. We did a lot of stuff together. And he was young. And so I got him and I got to train him. And he just was just magic. Like everybody wanted him. He was just like all the energy. Like anytime he'd show up, he was just like a soldier. Like he'd just march right into the arena and he just looked like bang out a barrel pattern just so fast and so quick and just like he was ever like he was all of my dreams like as a young adult like literally wrapped up into this one horse like everything and he had he there a tragic event happened and he didn't make it through and so so anyways I lost him and like when I lost him I just kind of lost everything and like I went out and I bought another horse and It just wasn't fast enough. And so I gave it to my mom. And then my horse had had two babies. And so I begged the people to like let me have one. Then when I got her the first year, I ran her, she was great, and then she just wasn't great and she wasn't great. And then the next year she came back and it was like the same pattern. And by the third year, like she just couldn't do it. And I she There was something wrong with her. And so anyway, she had an injury in her foot and she was just done. And at that point, I had never traveled the world. I had never done anything except for live in New Mexico and like travel around. I mean, I'd done a lot on horses, but like I hadn't seen anything, you know? Right, right. And so I just walked away. Walked away from it all. Like sold the horse trailer, sold the truck. My parents kept the horses, but like I literally just walked away just feeling devastated, like just completely crushed, you know. And so it just like nothing nothing was working out for there there. And I eventually traveled all over the place and I landed in San Diego, so very close to you. And I got a contract as a project manager working at the San Diego Gas and Electric. And From there, I decided I'm gonna become a marine biologist. So I got my master's degree in marine biology, and I've been chasing whales for the last 10 years. And somehow that job brought me up here to Washington. And then that's we bought this small ranch up here. And about six years ago I got back into horses. And I can I'll just stop there so we can have a couple other questions because. Life gets very interesting once I get back into horses. But that's sort of the story of like how this all came to be and like all these different venues of like things I've got to explore. Well, it sounds like you've had like a you know, even with your challenges you face, right? Like a pretty exciting life, right, with horses. But I kind of understand that, right? That's like someone who has a long term pet, right? Mm-hmm. And then it You know, it passes or, you know, it gets old. It's never the same, right? Cause I remember, you know, our first pet, right, which lasted until I I think was a junior in high school, right? Like all those years. And I remember even, you know, I'd pull up, you know, when I was driving and she was old. I remember she would just stand there, right? She was deaf, blind, but she was my dog, right? Like she was my first dog ever. And she looked And then I remember coming home one time. I'm looking around. I'm asking my mom. You know, she didn't want to tell me. I go, Hey, where's her name was Frisbee? I Where's Frisbee? And she's like, Well, you know, I have to tell you now, right? But she had to put her down because she was that. But, you know, you think about it, I I remember her from the time I was before kindergarten all the way through elementary school, junior high, and high school, you know, almost my senior year, and just going. So I I get where you're coming from, right? Because like when you have, I can only imagine though, a horse like that, that's like your best friend, right? And it did all those things with you. And then you lose, you know, it's like it does it doesn't seem to me like until recently for me. And I got these three wiener dogs, my wife and I, right? My wife says, You're gonna love wiener dogs. You ever seen, I don't know, it's kind of funny, right? Like the dog, my husband. thought he was gonna have, right? And it's me with like my I Rottweiler or Big Cane Corso or a big old pit bull, right? Which I do have a pit. She was a rescue, but she's not like the ones you think, right? And then I have my three wiener dogs, which we love like sh and especially the female, because the female was supposed to be my wife's, right? But I work from home. Yeah. So the like She loves my wife, but when I get into the room, she kind of looks at my wife like, see ya, I'm out, right? So I understand like what you're getting, you know, talking about here, right? So you change your life, right? You go back to college, you get your masters. I mean, even chasing wells sounds very exciting to me, right? To be on the ocean. you know, to go to do all that, right? So let's talk about a little bit. Right. Cause I want to know how do I put this? I want to say this right way. Like it had to be sad, right? When you lost your horse, and then the other one just weren't cutting it for you. Right. It's like and then you you go chasing whales, and I'm sure in your mind you're like, you know, this is still not like my horse. Like what? So talk about those moments where you go, like, I have to get back to my horses, right? Because we're My mother in law grew up, right? Not too far from where they have the Calgary Stampede. She said she used to go from when she was a little girl. They still have it as far as I know, right? The big rodeo up there in Canada. Yep. And then like I said, my wife you know, had a horse when she was younger and and had a coup well, a couple, right? That she but then when like you, when she lost the one that she loved, it was like never the same. And she hasn't returned to horses sin either. So I may have her listening to this. I go, You're gonna have to listen to Alicia. And then I might go, Darn that Alicia, right? Now I gotta get my wife a horse because she's gonna wanna get back into horses. Yeah, pretty much. Right. But they are wonderful animals. Like I I mean, to me, and when I talk to you after the podcast, it's gonna be a little sad, but you know, what happened here with my neighbor and one of her horses, and but talk about those moments where like, okay, you were away from the horses, right? What drew you back? Was it Being with the whales where you said, This is I love this, but it's not my true love. Or did somebody plant a seed in your brain saying, Alicia, go back to your horses? Yeah, it was weird. Like so during the time period that I walked away, I actually found yoga. I was living in San Diego and I had been riding horses. And I was a big runner and so I ran everywhere. I rode horses and those are very compounding sports on your body. And so they really tense you up and like just really hard on your joints. And so I was visiting a chiropractor and just like all my joints were just so stiff and she's like, I can only do so much here, but you've got to go to yoga. Like you've got to stretch out your muscles. So I was just like, Okay, well, I think I liked that in college. I took like a semester of it or something, you know. And so I went to my first yoga class and I happened to buy a group on to Bikram yoga, which is like 130 degrees and you're and it's hot and it's like it's it's the worst yoga in the entire world to me. But anyways, I bought the group on, so I made myself go for the 30 days and the first three days hated it, hated it, couldn't hardly stand it in there. I was like, I don't know what I bought. I don't know what Bikram is. This is the worst. And then by the end of the week, like my body was craving it. It was like, you have to go to yoga. And so then after the group on, I found other yoga studios that were not so hot or some that just didn't even use heat. But I just fell in love with yoga and it broke me open. Like all the stuff, like I mean I could probably tear up right now, but like all the stuff that I was holding from my horse and like all those dreams, all that stuff just like started to process through me. And right the yoga like it kind of saved my soul in some ways of like being able to like move and I and and be in a space where there's like other people moving and breathing and you're like moving your body but also like there's something that happens internally inside of you, like a deep healing. And that was just happening for me. And I just fell in love with yoga. And just like it just became my entire life. And I'd go to all the teachers in San Diego and try to learn from them because I was like, this is so cool. And then one of my friends who was in San Diego, she's like a corporate girl and she is going to yoga teacher training and she hardly ever does yoga. And I was like, Why are you even going to yoga teacher? Like, are you making so much money in corporate and all these things? Like, Why are you doing this? And she's Well, I just want to learn about it more. And I thought it'd be cool to do teacher training to learn about it. And I was like, whoa. I was like, I could do I I don't think I could ever be this great of a teacher. Like my teachers are so amazing. Like I could never do it. But I could do it to learn about it more. And so that's kind of how I became a yoga teacher. Is I didn't ever think I would be good enough because like there's so many great teachers. But I don't know. I've been doing it for like twelve years now. So like it's yoga's just part of who I am now. And and that's just kind of how it started, but it's always been a ho a side hobby for me. And then when we moved from San Diego, I got a job. I've been was working as a marine biologist all this time. after I got my masters, and like there's just no room for horses in San Diego. Like you can't live in Pacific Heach San Diego and have a horse. Like so I never ever ever thought horses were probably coming back to my life into my life. Like I never saw this opening. So I think I had just kind of cl I healed and then I like just kind of closed off that dream that I would ever like and I love whales. Like I love being on boats. I love seeing whales. I love writing about whales. I love chasing them around. I like taking photographs. I mean, like I love being on the boat. Like I love everything about whales. I love writing proposals about whale research. Like doing the presentation, everything about it. Right. So then we got this job, or I got this job up here in Squim. So my husband and I move up here to s like rural farm town. It's so small and quiet. It's 2020. It is like living in an apocalypse because there's nobody in town. It's nobody. So, anyways, we find this house and it has all these acres. And as we're like looking at properties and we're seeing all these different things, like The excitement for this possibility of like having horses. And I was like, I don't want to live in town. Like, I want to have horses again, I think, Ben. And he was like, Well, let's do it. Like, let's find a place that can like let us have horses. And or I was like, I want a horse. Like I and my mom still had that mare down in New Mexico. And so I was like, I want to bring my horse here and I want to have her here again. And then, She did make it up here, but unfortunately some other stuff happened with her. So she's she's not around anymore. But like, she she made it up here and I did get my horse. And so I was doing the whale job and I was getting back into horses. And yeah, that's yeah. And then after after Miranda passed away, I decided I'm gonna go out and find a new horse. And boy was that Really, really disturbing. Like there's there's a a lot of dishonest people out there that got taken for a ride or bucked off or whatever you want to say. But yeah, I bought a very the wrong horse. Yeah. So you know, it's funny that you mentioned that, right? Because I remember my wife telling me a story about when she was, you know, her parents were gonna get her another horse, right? So she gets on this horse. And she goes from the get go, she goes, There's something not right with this horse, right? Like there's something not good with this horse, right? And it's not the horse's fault, but yeah. they had her on the horse, I don't know, her or him, right? But it it was all drugged up. Right. And she would find out later why the horse would do the things it was doing. And yeah and you're right, right? Like I and I've only heard stories from like my wife and other people around here, but you know. You have to be very careful when you're getting a horse, right? Because it is. There's a lot of, you know, shady people that will try to sell you, you know, almost like a car, a lemon, right? But tell you it's great. You know, it's the best horse you're ever gonna buy. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what happened to me is I flew all the way down to Texas. I rode this horse and I guess the red flag as she was telling me, he really likes you, he really likes you. Like that was a big deal. And I was like, Well, of course he likes me. Like loves me, you know, like then we ship him all the way from Texas up here. He bucks me off within like the first two or three weeks. I call her and she tells me s I mean by then like she should just buy him back. from me. Like I I'm I'm scared of him now, you know. And I told her, like, I just can't get back on him because I don't trust him. And she's like, Well, you did that to him. And I was like, I didn't do anything to him. Like I literally had been so nice to this horse for two weeks. And so she said, No, I'm not gonna take him back. And just within like a short amount of time, he is running through metal panels. Like he gets this like crazy eye and his like his eyes go like white. And he crashes through panels. He was dangerous to be in the pen with. I was trying to get other people to ride him and then I sent him back down to New Mexico to my one of my good friends who trains horses and I'm like, Can you do something with him? I mean, he's bred really nice. And she's w she was like, We've got to send him off to get to a colt starter and the cult starter was like, He needs to go to the sale bar and wherever he ends up, he's where he ends up and so I spent so much money on this horse. I spent so much investment and time like buying it and shipping it and shipping it again in the trainer. Like there's so much. But what actually a good thing happened with that horse. So he ended up with like this cow like a corn fed cowboy, this giant six four big boy. And I guess he was flipping over on him doing all kinds of stuff. But now, like one day I guess his like mind just kind of like flipped. And his like really elderly dad dad has been like riding this horse, like roping on him and he's so good now. But yeah, crazy Looney Tunes, like literally dangerous. Yeah, not the kind of horse I told the girl I wanted. I was like, I I don't mind getting a young horse, but don't give me a crazy one. And I got a crazy one. Well, you know, and thank God you're you done yoga, right? To kinda like center yourself around these crazy events with these horses, right? 'Cause I mean, I can only imagine the frustration, right? Like you just want to get back on the horse and he's like, Nope, I'm gonna be a pain in your butt and you're not gonna ride me or I'm gonna scare you. Yeah. But well, it's like really hard, right? 'Cause I I wanted this dream again because like it was like the last time I left I was so crushed. And like here I am, like, okay, I'm gonna revitalize this dream, get this horse, and like do these things, it's gonna be so wonderful. And then it wasn't. And then my mom had a horse that she was not riding as much anymore, so she sent another one up here, and he's just such a good old boy. His name is Cooper, and now I graduated from him to have Three Mustangs because Mustangs are like wiener dogs. They're like potato chips. And you can't have just one Mustang. You need three. I love it. Yeah. So the old man Cooper's now Ben's horse. And now I have three wild Mustangs and they're just yeah. So yeah, that's I love that. I'm gonna tell that I'm gonna say you should hear my guest. She tells me Mustangs are like wiener dogs, right? Yeah. So if we ever get one, don't tell me we gotta get another couple because Yeah. You do if you get one Mustang, they're so addicting. Like you have to get at least three more. I can only imagine, right? And you know, it's funny because you know, like with the the show Yellowstone, right? Everybody thinks it's so easy to get up on a horse and go riding. I let me tell you, my first experience with a horse with my ex wife, right? We go, we're gonna go ride. Okay, cool. Never win, let's go do it. So we go do it. Right. My horse is fine for a while until we get to the road and then it stops and decides like right in the middle of the road where traffic's coming. I'm like, we're not going. And I'm doing everything the guy says, and this horse is just going like, Nope. Then finally it did, right? Like even when cars were honking at it, it just like I'm not moving. Like I just like it here. Yeah, exactly. This is where I'm gonna stay because this is where I wanna be. But then I realized, right, it was later in the day. It was probably hot. It probably already been ridden. And it was probably at a point where it's like, I'm done, man. I just want to sit down. Right. But, you know, all these things that we're talking about, right? Like your journey as a a marine biologist, your journey as a yoga teacher or instructor. that's a funny story because my cousin, she's A dental hygienist by trade, but loves teaching yoga, also, right? So she took my brother, who's 10 years older, she goes, I he tells me the story. She didn't tell him they were gonna do that bikram or the hot yoga, right? he said, I got in there, it was all fine until it got really hot. He goes, and then he my cousin said she I remember when I was talking to her about she looked at me and she goes, Yeah, he gave me that look like I'm gonna kill you for making. Right, he finished it, but he said yeah, he goes, I sweat. I've never sweat like that before. He goes, I was, but I should do yoga, right? Because my old body is feeling like it needs some mobility work. And but you know, we won't talk about me, and you know, I will maybe later after the episode, I'll hit you up and go, What do you suggest for a 50-year-old whose joints like you're talking about are so stiff. my God. But anyway, but I loved listening to your journey, right? Like that led you back to horses, right? Because I think sometimes we're all on a path where something that we love, right? We get distracted or something happens where we have to step away for a while. Yeah. Right. So you can come back and, you know, since you have glasses, right? Now you get to look at horses through a new pair of glasses, right? Yeah. Yeah. As they say, right? Like, 'Cause there's a a book in my you know, I'm a recovering person and one of the people in old timers of AA wrote a book called A New Pair of Glasses, right? Which I love that book because it taught me how to look at life through different lenses, like you know what I mean, and not the old way. So as you're coming back into horses, right? You're you're you got scammed by this lady, right? Horses being a stubborn, more like an ass instead of a horse, the same. Right. And as you get back into the horses, what were some of the lessons you learned in that journey of coming, you know, coming back, as they say, full circle? What were some of those lessons that you could share with the audience that you learned on your journey? Yeah, I think that there's I think that time period was of healing was really essential. there's so there's a lot of competition, right? There's a lot there's a lot of similarities with like the life of like a hor a competitive horse person. And everything is all about winning and like your competition. And and you're supposed to be like running against yourself or competing against yourself, but you are competing against a bunch of other people who are amazing, right? Right. And there's a lot of similarities also with like research proposals. You're competing with a lot of the best brains and you're you know, there's there's a lot of work around competition and like one of the most profound things was one of the very, very first things that I learned in yoga is like it doesn't matter what other people are doing on the mat beside you. Maybe they are doing the pose and it's full expression that day. The next day they might not be able to do that. But you like when you first get into yoga, you don't realize that you just see these people and they're like amazing. And it's like I want to be like that or be like that and that competitive edge. But it's like meet yourself at the mat where you are that day. And like basically taking that and understanding that and now showing up, my horse is gonna show up how he is that day or how she is that day, whatever whichever man I'm riding, you know. Right. And so she's gonna she's gonna show up to the mat and I'm gonna show up to the mat or to the, you know, being saddled or being whatever. And we're gonna show up that day however we are. And I think that's probably one of the most profound things is that it's not that competition and that's not the way our society works at all. And I think that's something that is really needed in this indust in many industries. But but very very profound here because that is not it's like you get bucked off, you get back on that horse right now. Otherwise you're never gonna do it. But that's not necessarily true. Like That and that's actually maybe not the next best step for you, right? Like sometimes you like fall off and you like whatever. If you're riding a bike, maybe you need to take a minute to recover. Maybe you need to wrap your mind around the lesson and like that instant action act a afterwards isn't necessarily gonna get you to finish fulling. And so those are some of the things that I've just like from yoga that I have brought to my horses now. And I just think that I know a lot of people give some some of the horse trainers that are more like gentle and kind a lot of criticism right now because they're like the horse has to do this, the horse has to learn, it has to be strong, but like there's a balance between harsh and heavy work, and there's also like a balance of like too much. kindness and giving and, you know, friendship because these are big animals. And so there has to be somewhere that you meet in the middle where you have to be able to do some correction. You also, you know, need to do it with gentle kindness. And that also goes for yourself. So that when you leave that barn that day, you are you are feeling like fulfilled. So that you haven't gone either way too much, right? Because if you're doing that, there's There's a balance. And then I mean that just kind of flows once you start learning how to do this stuff, that flows into like going to the grocery store. you know, d going out into the world and going to like a music festival or whatever you're gonna do, you know, like however you're going to your kids' school. I don't know, having parent teacher night. I don't know what it is. But like you know, like it's all those little things that I think that that period of time allowed me to gain a whole new perspective and education, like how I can bring these tools into what I'm doing in a in a balanced way. And like I was on a call today and the lady was just like, I I'm so glad I'm talking to you right now because you are so calm. And like almost everything I'm consuming these days, like there's no calm in this world right now. And like It's so needed and like your presence here is just really needed. And so it just like I feel like the more we can bring that into the world, the better it's gonna get for people because they can they can do this too. Like this isn't just something that you find somebody and they're doing it. It's like something that you can also do. Right. And I love that you said that, right? Because I gotta follow my own advice, right? Because as an addiction counselor, right. I used like I I had to learn how to balance right with the kick in the butt, right? With high five, here's a hug, you did great, right? Because when I first got sober, right, twenty two plus years ago now, right? And you know, I had to learn from my mistakes, my four relapses, right? Like the ones that worked for me, the guys that, you know. That were in my face screaming and you can, you know, like, dude, that's you're now you're turning me off to even want to come back, right? Like I might as well just go do what I was doing on the streets, right? Cause same thing. Same thing. Yeah. Right. And then I found myself doing that my first year with like c you know, the clients I work with, right? I'd be like, well, if you don't do the steps like I, you know, I can't work with you. And you know, blah, blah, blah. And they'd look at me like, Max, you need to chill out a little bit. Like, whoa. You know what I mean? And I and I was like, my God, right? I'm turning like they say, I'm my I'm like my parents now. Holy moly. Right. Yeah. So I've learned over the years of doing that for you know almost 17 years now, that now I have a good idea of when they need a kick in the butt, right? Like that accountability. Uh-huh. And then coupled with like you know, putting my arm around their shoulder and go, look, you're right where you need to be. I'm right here. I'm doing this with you, not for you, but I'm not, you know, I you're right. It's like that's you're what you just talked about is like a perfect metaphor for life, right? If we all could learn, right, when, you know, we need the kick in the butt or, you know, the the stern like, hey, Alicia, you know, I really think you need to, you know, go do this right now, right? Instead of Screaming at you or whatever, or you know, maybe you can do it tomorrow, Alicia, right? Because I know of my mind, they kept telling me you could do it tomorrow. I probably wouldn't be here with you today, right? It'd be like, I'll do the podcast tomorrow, right? Like I'll do it another day. Yeah. right. And that's what I think, like in your case, which yoga taught you, right? Because I gotta give myself a break. I'm so bad, Alicia, right? Because I have, okay, so I have a a show, my right shoulder has no muscle. Like I they nicked a nerve in during surgery and I have no muscle. So I can't do certain poses, right? So right off the bat I tell myself I can't even do yoga anymore. And someone, right, a guy from my meeting said, Max, give yourself a break. Just do what you can. That's what it's about. And you don't, and he's a big dude. Like I look at him and I I go, dude, you're gonna embarrass me if I go do yoga and you're a lot better than me. He goes, but I've been doing this a while, right? Like you just gotta do it. Yeah, it's your right. Which I know that if I can get some yoga, it will help with my mobility, right? And all that stiffness and Yeah. But like it's such a great lesson. Is a lady who just had like a nub at her elbow. Like she had she had no arm past here and she would do yoga with her one arm. She would down dog. She did she did everything. that she did, but she had no hand and she was she was there. So like literally like and that's the thing, like your friend is exactly right. Like you just have even if you've sat in child or if you just like was in ch child's pose or savasana and you showed up to your mat that day, like you showed up and you did a thing. So like that's what's so beautiful about yoga is like you showed up for yourself and that's the That's the hardest part, right? And that's probably like with recovery too, is like showing up for yourself every day. Like you've got to show up for yourself. Like And that's even like Ayurvedic practices. Like if you if you do Ayurveda and you're like into like the avianga of like self massage or you tongue scrape or you like whatever it is, or you're eating, you know, your earlier, lighter dinner, or like any of those things, like That's those are like self-love, self-care. That's showing up. And those are like the biggest things you could do to make your body better and your mind. Well, I and and what I'm hearing from you is that's what it took for you to come back to your horses, right? You had to start showing a g up for yourself again and just doing it right. And right, 'cause when we were talking earlier, if everybody like and she even, you know, at least she even said it when we were starting to talk about it, right? Like she got a little emotional because you could tell how much she loves her horses, right? And, you know, it it's like the journey, you know, that I've gone on, right? And I talk about certain things, you'll I get very emotional and choked up because it's right. And and I don't beat myself up for it because it's like part of my journey. Right. And it's like, wow, I can feel again, right? Because for years that's the part I cut off, right? I didn't want to feel. So, you know, I put substances in my body. So I didn't have to do that. Yeah. Right. But that's why I love having conversations like this with you today, right? Because, you know, people get to see a different perspective from a different angle, right? Yeah. Right. I because I I believe, right, because you've shared it so far, we're all in some type of recovery from something, whether it's, you know, stuff we've done to ourselves or others have done to us, or something didn't go the way we wanted. So we cut off a certain part of our life, right? So we Realize, you know, as you did, like, I need my horses back, right? Like I need my horses back. The whales are cool, but I need my horses back. Right. And I love hearing your journey, you know, of cause it's like the onion that I'm hearing you have gone through, right? That, you know, you peel it back, you uncover, you discover, you discard, and you do it all over again, right? And you just keep going and you keep going. Such is life, right? And that's how and I I agree with you, excuse me. Everybody I've been I don't know you see I've been wiping my eye I have some allergy. I've turned fifty eight and all of a sudden my allergi I have allergies like you should have seen yesterday. My eyes are all never mind. Anyway. Yeah, I understand. I have them really bad this year, like extremely bad as well. My eyes have been crying. I mean, not during the podcast, thankfully, but they've been crying all day. I well yesterday they like it looked like I had blister on this side of the part over the white of my eye, right? But like three weeks ago I had to go the emergency room. Both eyes were like that. Right. So, but anyway, right. But I showed up today, right? Because part of me was like, Okay, here comes the excuses. I could tell Alicia, you know, my eyes and I don't want to sneeze on her and this. But I said, you know what? We need to get her story out. And I really am looking forward to this 'cause, you know, like I said, I always hear stories of horses from my wife. And I just I love listening to when she was a little kid and how much she loved horses and And then the like I said, our neighbor loves horses. Like that's the love of her life. Or her I think she has two and a and a new one, a pony now. Like the her mare had a pony, so or whatever you call it, right? But a cult, yeah. Well, you know, I'm not sure what type of horse it is. I think they're Mustangs too. I'm not sure. But anyway. Interesting. but I love hearing your story, right? And your journey, right? Because what it comes down to, what I'm hearing is right, is that you found that compassion for yourself to go, okay, right, I had a hard time, I got through it, now it's time to get back to what I really love, right? And and that's to my horses, right? Yeah. And so in this journey, you know, we're Especially with horses, right? Like 'cause sometimes I'm in tune. Like I told you, she had some big horses and I remember standing next to her and I'm like, horses are huge. Like you're right. And it brings to mind this I don't know if you've ever seen him on YouTube, these hor like animal chiropractors, right? Yeah. And you know, I've always been taught, right, 'cause you know, especially through my cousin's experience, right? He long time ago when he was younger, the the instructor said, Don't walk behind the horse. What did he do? He walked behind the horse. The horse kicked him in the head, right? Not hard, but hard enough to knock him on his butt. And but I'm watching these, you know, this chiropractor get behind a horse and and crack its back or and the horse kind of look at him like, I love you. That felt so good. Can you do it again? You know what I mean? Yeah. But that's I think what I'm getting at is like the The relationship you build with your horses, right? Is a lesson in life that you can build relationships with people, right? Because you got to treat, right? You treat the horse with respect, it's gonna respect you back, right? You love on the horse, it's gonna love you back. Or any animal, right? Like like, you know, my loving wiener dogs is sometimes their barking drives me crazy, but that certain look they get, you can't get mad at them. You just look at them like, right? Yeah. So how was that? You know, part of that journey, like that's what I want to get at is like, you know, in and getting your horse back, how was that for you to, you know, not only love on the horses again, but how was that for you mentally, right? Getting back into that mode because you like you said, you had cut off, like I'm not gonna do horses, get rid of them. I'm out, right? I'll go, I'll go see whales, I'll go study whales. But how was that journey for you? Because I want people to understand, right? This is full circle for you, right? And it was a journey, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think so I'm a big believer that your voice is your most powerful tool and you listen to yourself every single day. Like every day you are listening to yourself say whatever you're gonna say, you know, and When you were a little kid, you had dreams and you constantly talked in your head about those things and people rearrange them, life rearranged them. But like they're still in there. And now you can have like adult dreams of like other things, right? Right. One of the daily practices I do is I listen to mantras that I make every day. I have a list here of all of mine that I have written down and I read them. And I listen to them and it is literally all the things that I dream of. And y the person who talks about this the most is Bob Proctor. And he uses the science of getting and I don't know why it's not coming to my head, but there's other books out there too. But anything by Bob Proctor, if you look him up on YouTube or listen to his books, he tells you how to do this and like why it's important to write your stuff, to read your stuff, and to listen to your stuff every day. And these are like your dreams, right? And so when I look at what I wanted as a little girl, I wanted to be able to walk outside and see my horses in a barn. And like I wanted to be able to ride at my house and I wanted to you know, have a property that I could take care of. And like I have that now. Like everything that I wanted as a little girl, I have now. And so like now I'm building bigger dreams and different dreams. And that's why I think my business right now, like Calgirl Life Co. is just like so important to me because this is like the next dream that I'm building. And this dream is like for all horsewomen to believe that they can have this and do this. And so Now like having these horses and like having this having this life is just like the circle here is just so impactful and more meaningful than it could have been if I hadn't have taken the journey that I did and not had horses for a while. Because now I get to live out all the like little girl Alicia dreams and like you know, and so like that's the part that's like so amazing, but like If you never reflect back on all of that stuff and you never kind of write down what you want your life to look like, then you never know if you got there or not. Like if you're not listening to yourself, because literally 24 hours a day, this is going on. And like whatever it is, it needs to be projecting out there all of the wonderful things that are coming to you. Like All of the wonderful, all the abundance, all every wonderful dream that you have, like what you wear, where you live, what you drive, who's around you, like what trips you want to take, the people you work with, you know, the family that you want to have, like whatever that is, like the however many horses you want, like all of that stuff is within your reach if you believe the voice in your head. But it the minute those blocks come up, then You're not gonna have that because you just put a block in the way. It's kinda like what you're talking about, like put the block up with the allergies. Right. You know, and I mean, to be honest, it's like kinda later afternoon. It's like two o'clock. And like for me, like two o'clock, I'm like, I feel like I need to take a nap right now. You know? I'm like, wow, okay. god, I got a podcast in me, I can do this. But like now we're here and it's like energetic and fun. And I'm like so pleased that we both got on today and actually did this because it's like absolutely wonderful. Absolutely. You know? And and that's how I look at this like every day, right? Because like I'm glad you brought bro Bob Proctor up, right? Because he was he read like like and I've seen videos where he showed his original book think and grow rich where he where he got a lot of this stuff, right? Which Napoleon Hill talks about. Like things thoughts become things. Yes. Right. Whether they're good or bad or indifferent, right? Whatever we put out, right? And for me it's like God, right? I I have big faith that there's this power greater than me that, you know, put me on this earth for a reason, right? Despite all the bad stuff, right? I put myself I like I I rephrase it now, that I put myself through, right? Thank God he was there to get me out of it. Or she, whatever, the universe. But you're right, right? Like I believe that. And I I'm sure you've noticed this too in your journey, right? Like when you're having a one of those rough days and like, you know, nothing's going well. It seems like when you step out into the world, it seems to follow you everywhere, right? Like Yeah. Like I need go home immediately. Yeah, exactly. Like here, that nap is really calling my name right now. Like, I'm gonna go home because here's what's going on, right? But if you notice when there's good things, right? Like and you're doing positive things, seems to come back to you, right? Like And I know that's like like doing this, I love it. It's it's it's my passion. It's something that I didn't want to start in the beginning, but I just was trying to appease some people in a group I belonged to. But I'm so glad that my coach and mentor at the time, right, God rest his soul, right, pushed me and and held me accountable because now I look forward to it. Even When I having I'm having a rough day, right? It's like one of those things I can look forward to. I'm going, I'm gonna have a great conversation. Right. I tell myself, shut up, Max, because you're letting that little filter come in, right? Yeah. But it's like going to a meeting for me, a twelve step meeting, right? Like I know I don't want to go. I feel like the humbug, right? Like I feel like, you know, whatchamacallit from Christmas Carol. But I every time I go, I always feel better. Yeah. Than when I got there when I leave, right? Yes. And it's like this, right? Like again, I'm having this awesome conversation with Alicia. She's smiling. I'm smiling, right? And all of you go watch this on YouTube. You'll get to see it. Yeah. But I hope you paid attention to what she said, right? Like sometimes we do have to take a break from those things we really love, right? Because for some reason, it could be us, it could be other people, it could be whatever forces, right? Yeah. It's their way of say, take a step back. She said it. You heard Alicia say reflect on it. And then come back to it, right? Like that is, you know, like for me it's my prayer and meditation, right? Like I I just know that if I don't do it in the morning, all I'm off. And my you know who'll tell me, right? Like, did you pray and meditate today? And I know like I know my hopeful go, I know, I can tell. But and it was like when I first got sober, right? My oldest daughter was my meeting meter, let's say. And I don't know. I was being a jerk and Dad, have you gone to a meeting? And I'd be like, that's it. No, I don't think I have. Well, you need to go to a meeting. Why? Because you're being a jerk. And I'm like, I get it. Right. And you know, that's why I'm so happy, you know, and grateful that you're here with me today. And we get to have this conversation. So now I'm gonna talk about those silly things I told you that I, you know, have my memory problems, but these I don't, right? We're gonna start with fearless, right? Okay. Going what you've been through and your journey. What does fearless mean to you today, Alicia? And how does that show up in your and in your life on a daily basis? Yeah, I think that being fearless is well, in the horse, if I'm gonna put this back in a horse metaphor. so being fearless is we get up in the morning and we look at ourselves in the mirror. And we get a reflection and like who we see back at ourselves is ourselves at that moment in time, right? And so like we're getting ready, we're doing these things and you're seeing yourself in the mirror. And like when you go to your horse, that is another mirror. And it's not the mirror that you think you're looking at, right? Because they're telling you something else about yourself. Whether you're in a good mood, whether you're in a bad mood, whether you don't you have a ugly attitude or whatever, you know, like whatever it is, they are literally the most honest mirror that there possibly could be because like literally there's an energetic field around them and they can feel each other. They know when the energy rises, they know when it falls, like they know your energy, they can read you when you're like slumped over and sad. They they know you just by reading your body language and that because that's how they talk to each other is through body language. So they already see you for who you are. And if you are open to that, then you can see yourself from like a whole brand new perspective and like show up in different ways. And like this isn't the type of honesty that you get from a dog. This is not the kind of honesty you get from another human. Like literally when a I don't know any other animal in the whole world that you can get this level of honesty from because dogs just love us too much. Like we're always really dogs are like so loyal about being excited about us that like literally you I mean, you have to be a really rotten person, right? Like But even but even then, you know with dogs, right? They still come back for more 'cause they think maybe they're just having a bad moment. I still love you, right? But I think you're correct. I've seen it like not only in like shows or you know, whatever. Yeah. But you're right. Like horses are gonna reflect back to you what they see, right? And if you're being a jerk and you're trying to hide it, they're gonna let you know. but it's gonna walk away. Like they're exactly they're just like we're not gonna interact today. Like I just like we're not I don't feel like interacting with you. Right. Like that's no this is not the vibe I'm looking for. Right. And I've also yeah, right. And if they but if they know you're having a hard day, I know they're the type of animal that will nudge up against you like, Hey, I got your back, right? Like right? Like in movies you see that or I've seen it on YouTube where a girl was sitting by the pen, right, and she was in a sad mood and the horse stuck his head through and kinda nudged her, like, I'm here for you. Right. And on that note too, I'll just say this, just for a little bit of a plug, is that, you know, some horsewomen do get a little stuck on in that relationship there and like that honesty. So one thing that I created to kind of help go through that barrier if you're just like not really sure what they're seeing, like I created a quiz that has all these different horsewoman personas. So like you can go fill in the quiz and then at the end it'll tell you like the thing that you are. And then you can go out and really reflect and see is that the thing that you and your horse are disconnecting or is this something inside of you that's a disconnecting that you could maybe work on so that you can like start to build up that relationship and like reflect that mirror in a way that you want to have that reflection, you know, like you want that really pretty reflection connected. So like so that's one thing that did I'll I can send it to you or I love it. I love it. Right. Because I might have to use it just when I go to my neighbors, right? If that horse is looking, you know, so I can kind of trip on my wife and go not tell her how'd you do that? I'll say ancient Chinese secret. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. And there used to be a c I don't know if you remember, but there used to be a commercial. I forget it was a for some cleaning and it was all it was this Asian couple, right? And the the husband would tell the customers, right? It was for some detergent, right? And yeah. How did you get it so clean? And the and the husband would go, well Can't tell you ancient Chinese secret, right? And then the wife would come out and show it, no, it's not, it's this, but whatever. Yeah. But I love it, right? Like doing what you do and helping women, right? I'm sure you've helped them overcome so many fears, right? Leading back to horses. So I love it, right? That leads me into my next question, right? Which nice. It's not a typo. I did it on purpose, but knowing I put the why in happiness, Alicia, what does happiness mean to you today? And how does that show up in life? Yeah, I think that happiness, like happiness is I think that's like a word that everybody really wants to strive towards. but really reflecting if you want to go back to that on like where are the points in your life that you're already happy? And then how can you duplicate those in other places? So when you are potentially in a spot in a job or in a relationship or in a place in your life where like there's something that's like just really struggling with and like I mean, I can really relate back with like career and like really feeling stuck and wanting to continue to do my job as a researcher. but just and it wasn't that the passion was gone, is that they were just making it too hard to do the work. Right. And and I was looking at around me, right? And like I have happiness with my horse. I have happiness in my marriage. I have happiness with our dogs. And we have all these bees and we live in this really beautiful town. And like there's so much happiness, like where can I duplicate that now in my work life? And I think, you know, you've got to have happiness somewhere. And like you have to pull from that, like spread it out and figure out like how can I duplicate that? How can I replicate that? And then you have to dig deep into your fearlessness and you have to duplicate it. Like you just Like whatever barriers, whatever other things, like you are the one that's in charge of what that looks like. And like you are the one that's in charge of your happiness. And you have the well, right? That's a well of whatever. You have the fire, like an Ayurveda, they call your digestive system your fire. So your Agni. And like everything that you put in has to be metabolized into something else. And so when you're putting stuff in, if it's not feeling happy. You're digesting toxicity. You know, so what's gonna come out of you? Toxicity. Right. So like you have so this is a very long explanation, I think, about how but like I love it though. Sometimes can be like really drawn out to something very big when it's like simple practices that get you there. I love that. Yeah, I'm just gonna end up right there 'cause that just sounds like complete, you know? Absolutely, right? And I love that you said it 'cause I think it was Aristotle, right, who once said, Let your food be your medicine, right? Kite right, like 'cause yeah, you and I know if we eat junk, like I walk around all day going, Ugh, I'm not going to yoga. I feel like crap. You know what I mean? But if I eat healthy, then I'm gonna go, Hey, yeah, I'm going to do yoga. I might hit the gym after that or you know, whatever. Or then I might get on the horse and go for a ride, whatever. Right. And and You're right. We'll keep it simple like that, right? Because I think if we you know, us humans tend to complicate things. So if you can listen to what Alicia said and just keep it simple, yeah, you're gonna live a very happy life, right? And experience joy, which is much more l long lasting than happiness. But yeah, it's a start, right? Yeah. Well, that leads me into my next question, right? Which I everybody, you know, all the women in the audience who are are looking into doing something different or are like you took a break and now want to come back and right like I believe everything's right on time. How do they get a hold of you, Alicia, if they want to work with you or ask you questions about what you do and right are just, you know, are interested in doing something different with their life and are, you know, working towards getting a horse or whatever the case may be. Yeah, definitely. So I yeah, I work with horsewomen all the time in different phases of like where they are and creating their horse dream and whatever setbacks. So we just typically I have a 30 minute spark call with them because I have a program called Cowgirl Ignite and so we get your spark back. so we spend 30 minutes together, it's just horsewoman to horsewoman, and we just have a really wonderful conversation like this just about her and her horse. And you can book that by going to aliciavandegren.com or you can just email me directly. I'll send you a link right away. And that's hello at AliciaVandegren.com. And then I am on Facebook and Instagram. If you want to do some yoga, I have horse girl yoga on YouTube and all the call signs for social media are Cowgirl Life Co. so that's the name of my business and then everything else is under my name and I'm just I'm happy to, you know, figure out. most people come into my program, but sometimes there's just not a right fit. But most people it's a good fit. And so yeah, I just love talking to horsewomen about their stories and about how they got to where they are right now with their lives and it's just it's like I don't know, it's a dream job, it's really fun. See, this see you hear that everybody, right? Like once you find your what you're passionate about, right? You never work a day in your life, right? Like I've been working in the addiction field for 17 years and I've had people go, Aren't you sick of it? I'm like, No. Right? Yeah, there's some sad moments because in my field, obviously there's some sad things that happen, but do I ever get up and go, I don't want to go to work? No, it's like my podcast. I get to get up and go, whoo, I'm gonna have a cool conversation with Alicia today and have fun with it, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you you heard her everybody, right? So this has been one amazing time. I knew it would be, right? Cause I have one, I had a feeling that Vandergren was a Dutch name and being Dutch Indonesian, I was like already excited to talk to you, right? Yes. tell your husband I said hello. And but I this has been an amazing time, Alicia. Had so much fun, but you're not quite off the hook just yet. Okay now I get to ask you my favorite question. I always save the best for last. And I ask all my guests this question, and it goes like this. So, what is the one piece of advice, Alicia, that you could give my audience to help them grow as human beings and become better people? there's so many things to do, right? right. Yeah, okay. So the one thing you can do to be a better human, grow as you're human. I think the w that the thing that you are probably like putting them up the barriers, it's like the one thing that you really do want to do, but you just like every day you think of a reason not to, right? Like I was like, I can't have a sunflower garden because I don't have a rota tiller. And then my dad ended up getting a rota tiller for free. And so we have one and now I have a sunflower garden. But like I kept thinking that I couldn't have the things that I wanted, right? And I would say if you are at a point where you you know you can do these things and you have a passion and you that's how you grow because when you share your knowledge, no one else in the world has your knowledge. No one has your experience and like you sharing that with the world and you bringing whatever gift, whether it's like essential oils or it's coaching or You're doing these fun workshops. Like we're just talking to another lady today about this other lady who she's never, ever, ever sold a pie in her life. She teaches people how to build the pies and make the pies and bake the pies. And her whole business is helping other people learn how to make a good pie. That's what she does in life. She doesn't when she makes a pie, she gives it away. She's never sold a single pie. And her pies are amazing. Like people just wanna know how to bake the pie. They come and see. So, like, if you don't think you can do it, you can do it. Listen to everything Bob Proctor has out there and just like believe in yourself. You could go do it. Just go do it. I love it. Do it now. Do it now. Yeah. Don't hesitate. Just do it. Right. Right. Fail forward 'cause you're gonna learn something in that process, right? So I love it. This has been an amazing time, which I knew it would be. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here with me, Alicia and the audience and teaching us all how to look at life a little bit different today, right? So you heard her, everybody, if Alicia made you think, if Alicia taught you something, if Alicia made you smile, and my famous, if Alicia made you go, Mmm, I like that. Please go to iTunes and leave a five-star review or come join me on my new YouTube channel where you can actually see Alicia and I have this. Wonderful conversation. So again, everybody, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in this world. This is Max from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. Until next time. Are you tired of being weighed down by life's traumas and struggles? Join the Fearless Happiness Lifestyle and let us guide you toward a brighter future. Explore our past podcast episodes and get a copy of the Fearless Happiness book to ignite your inner strength. If you or someone you love is battling addiction or facing challenges related to unresolved trauma, know that we are here for you. Visit maxnates.org, A X. N-I-J-S-T.org and take the first steps toward finding your fearless happiness. Thank you for listening. This has been a production of Fearless Happiness.