EntrepreneurWho Spends All His Time Making It Work with Mike Hammond | 250

Max Nijst: Welcome to the Fearless Happiness Podcast, where we showcase phenomenal individuals who have overcome serious traumas, life obstacles, and challenges to find their own path to fearless happiness. Listen as Max Naist invites guests from all around the world to share their experiences and spread strength, hope, and faith. This is the Fearless Happiness Podcast. And this is Max Naist. Everybody. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening wherever you are in this world. This is Max coming to you from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. And yes, you know I'm going to say it with another amazing and special guest. So I got Mike Hammond coming all the way from Idaho. ⁓ but what I like to do, Mike, is have you introduce yourself to my audience, like who you are, what it is you do, and then you and I are gonna rock and roll. All right. Hey, I'm ⁓ Dude, I'm a serial entrepreneur. I've I've never worked for anyone since I graduated college in 03. I've ⁓ always had my own businesses. I have about eight active ones right now. I've sold four. five. I lied. And so it's just ⁓ dude, starting businesses has been my thing. And ⁓ a lot of them have been really big. We had ⁓ the one that I'm gonna talk to you about today actually came from So my very first business was a dish retailer called Dish One Satellite. And we became the largest retailer in the US by two thousand ten. And in two thousand twelve, Dish bought us. So when Dish bought me, my one of my best friends. So I have a lot of best friends. You'll notice that. I have a lot of best friends. So I bet. But one of my ⁓ one of my best friends from MBA school is was Dan Marriott. And he he's actually one of the grandsons of the founders of the Marriott's. And he runs a manufacturing plant that that was created by them called Spectre Symbol. And it ⁓ it makes tech. And so he called me up and was like, Mike, I heard you sold your business. And I was Yeah, we just sold it. And he goes, Dude, you're gonna want to invest. In this new tech I'm building, I promise you it's the coolest thing. It's like, what is it? He goes, ⁓ it's an antenna we're doing for the military. And I was like, ⁓ cool. So I flew, Charlie Ergin had eight of his engineers from Denver fly out with me. And we went to ⁓ Heber, and I met these inventors. And these inventors were basically what happened in 2012. ⁓ I don't know if you have anyone that's been in the military, but When a team of like Navy SILS You were? Yeah. Navy. Yeah. Right. Keep going. Dude, there it is. So you'll know what I'm talking about then. So when the SILS were deployed, they this was special forces that we were basically working for. They had one communication guy, usually a Marine or something, that was basically in charge of all the communication for that group. And so he had a five-foot antenna and an eighty-pound backpack, and he would go out with these guys. jump out of a plane, whatever, 80 pounds on his back. It was they were just like, how do we shrink this down? It's too big. And what these inventors had done is back then all the antennas were magnetic. So you point them in a direction. And the more power you put behind that antenna, the farther the signal goes. Right. Right. So they changed it to be electrical instead of magnetic. So it's like a light bulb. So omnidirectional. It's everywhere. ⁓ and what that does is you're you're able to go about three times faster with like one one hundredth the amount of power. So it sounds cool, whatever. The engineers were like, that's not possible. There's no way. So we go out there and these guys, their test was they use two cell phone antennas, like the actual cell phone antenna like what the cell phone carriers push out to the cell phones, the huge ⁓ satellites. Yeah. So they had these two cell phone antennas facing each other and they pinged them one zeros and then they recorded how fast the w they could connect with each other. And then on those two cell phone towers, they had two little credit card antennas that these guys had built, the size of a credit card. Wow. And a nine volt battery. And they pinged it across the city 300% faster. So I didn't I didn't even know what that meant at the time. I'm like, This is cool. I'm gonna and I almost I gave them just under a million bucks. I was like, all right, I'm investing and I invested with these guys. And ⁓ they continued to build this out and they actually build it. And for years, we actually ⁓ were selling our antennas to the to the ⁓ Department of Defense forever. And but what happened is when what we noticed is when we got that antenna and when we put it on the soldiers' uniforms, we started picking up noise and we were like, how? How are we picking up noise? Because we're not doctors. So we're like, what's going on? What's wrong with this? Right. And we found out that the body's electrical. And because we had built it to work on electrical signals and microcurrents, it was actually interacting with the body's electrical system. And so, long story short, that led us into thinking, well, if we can do that, if it's interacting with the electrical system, we should be able to build something that can take care of pain. And that's the technology that we use to actually create this patch, which is the coolest thing I've ever done in my ten businesses. This is the coolest thing ever. Okay. Twenty different levels. I have to stop you for a second. I gotta stop you, right? Cause I got that in the mail. I think you're and I'm like, where I mean Is my mind and my back so good that someone out there said, ⁓ this guy's in pain. I'm gonna send this to this I couldn't figure out for the life of me where I got this from. Man, because Well, I'm gonna I'm actually gonna give that one to my s ⁓ my stepdaughter's husband. Cause he's had some serious back pain going on. Like, but I wanna send for another one because I have back pain, but mine's 'cause of surgery, right? I'm getting older. But yeah, man, that is wait till I tell my wife. She's like, What are you ordering now? How much did this cost us? And blah blah. I'm like, I swear to God. I go, I didn't I I Don't know where it came from and I'm telling the truth. And she's like, Yeah, okay. That's why all these Amazon packages. I go, wait a minute, your Amazon packages have been coming far more than my have lately. But I'm gonna find out where this came from. But I I am gonna have to order another one from you because I need one. But that is so awesome, right? Like what you're talking about. Is that's similar to what is that new one? The Starlink, right? Where you can basically go anywhere now and and get internet. If you had to, right? Like they're showing these guys. Starlink's like a satellite. This is a little bit different, but the but what is cool is ⁓ so most people don't know what causes pain. Like when I was just an IT, like a tech guy, I'm in the tech field. Like we don't study the brain, we don't get it, right? But because I understand how antennas work, because I that's my world, when we understood the body was electrical, it was like click. Like I'm starting to understand that, like I think it I get it more than even some doctors because ⁓ pain is actually just energy. So I used to think your brain tells you there's pain. What happens is your nerves fire off energy. That energy goes up your neural pathway. Yes. And the more energy that hits your brain, the more pain you feel. Okay. Okay. But energy always follows the path of least resistance. So this is the best comparison I have. If lightning strikes your house right now, you don't have a lightning rod on your house, it's gonna like dis destruction, right? Lights it on fire, puts a hole through the roof. Right. But you put this stupid metal pole on the roof with a little wire going to the ground and all of a sudden the lightning always goes to the pole and goes to the ground and never hurts the house, which is insane when you think about it. Right. But it's actually not because energy always goes, it follows the path of least resistance. So this is how this works. Your nerves fire off in your hand. Say you smashed your hand. Nerves start going crazy. It fires off that energy. You stick the patch right on top and above it. When that energy hits our antenna, for 85% of people, it's easier for that energy to go into the antenna than to keep going up to the brain. Wow. See, I knew this was gonna be great. So it's so rad because. We can turn the stuff off that there's actually no solutions for that people are like, there's nothing you can do. And I'm gonna give you an example actually. This is cool. I'm gonna end with vets because we're in the VA. We're VA approved, actually. If you go to a VA, you can get this patch. So that's funny because I gotta make an appointment with my doctor at the VA. ⁓ he's you can get it. Awesome, because he keeps wanting to send me pills and I'm like, nope, not doing it. And we'll get into that, but go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt. So so dude, this is so crazy. So the first people that tried this was actually one of the doctors at the Pentagon actually asked me if he could take forty of them to Afghanistan. I was like, What for? He's like, dude, I need to try it with my special force guys because they he goes, My issue right now is they're asking me for more pain meds. That's because they're still in pain. He's saying there, I'm not giving him enough, but I'm giving him too much. And he's like, I'm hoping this works. So I'll have to show you the text sometime. He texts me that night. He's like, dude, this is so crazy. I gave him it's he's like, I just gave this to all these guys and it seems to be working. This is awesome. And that's before we had any trials, any testing. So you couldn't do anything with it back then. Right. ⁓ we just got the approved by the VA like two, three ago. So it's brand new. We we have to go out and teach the doctors about it now. But yeah, it's there. He he can look it up and you can get it for free. So this is what's so cool about it. So my buddy's like the best example because so my best friend in high school, Matt, when we were 20, 22, something like that, he worked at Yellowstone Log and he was running a stump grinder on those logs. Right. And ⁓ back then, this is like Two thousand one. we wore MC hammer pants. Remember those like baggy pants with the strings on the bottom? Yeah. So the wind's blowing and it blows his string into the stump grinder and sucks his leg through it. ⁓ So he loses his leg to the knee. And ⁓ he's been dealing with crazy amounts of pain since then. And so ⁓ I lost track with him because I moved to Utah, started all my businesses, and then I came back in 2019, right when I was starting this company. I was like, I'm moving back to Idaho. And ⁓ my kid's a really good football player and he had scored a bunch of touchdowns in this game. And Matt it was in the audience. I didn't know Matt had moved back because he went to California to manage Walmarts, and I guess he quit and became a nurse and moved back to Idaho. And ⁓ he sees my boy, the name, and he's like, I wonder if that's Mike's kid. So he comes up to my ke my son and he's like, Hey, is your dad Mike Cammon? And he's like, Yeah. He's like, No way, I'm his best friend from high school. So we get connected again, right? That's awesome. And this is like exactly what it's like for people that are in, like, yeah, I hurt my back, it aches, but then there's people who like actually are in pain. It's like all consuming. It's the only thing they think about. Right. I wake up like that sometimes. I mean, and it's it's it's funny because it's better than before, but I'm in pain still. You know what I mean? And sometimes I deal with it. I've been in pain so much, like sometimes I just forget about it because it's part of my day. It's like just one of those things that nags and I forget you know what I mean? I forget about it. Okay, leave me alone. You're gonna love this thing. So so Matt actually runs into me. I'm like, How you doing, Matt? And I'm thinking, How are you? as in how's your family? He's like, my leg still hurts. I'm like, ⁓ So for me, I'm like, ⁓ okay, well, ⁓ how's everything else going? And he's like, honestly, I just got a pain pump installed in my stomach for a hundred thousand dollars. I'm hoping it helps, but it pumps morphine to my spine. That's probably giving me the most help, but my leg just hurts. I'm not even trying to talk about his leg. I'm like, okay. Right. But it's like all it's the only thing he's thinking about, right? Right. So then I tell him about my patch, and he was the first person I ever gave one to eat they we weren't selling them yet. So it was still in like that stage where we were messing around with it, trying to get it right. And I'm like, Will you come to my office? I want to try something on you. So he comes to the office, he brings his ⁓ two twins and his little girl. And he's in the office. He doesn't, he's an he's a nurse at this time. ⁓ nurse practitioner and he does not he thinks that he knows everything about medical. I'm not a doctor. I'm full of crap. He's coming because I'm his friend and he doesn't want to like hurt my feelings. Right. But he thinks it's crap. Yeah. So he's there, he sits down. I put the patch on the outside of his prosthetic, because that's in his electrical field. It doesn't have to be on the skin, it just has to be in your electrical field, right? Right. That's why you said on it or above it or So I put it on his prosthetic 'cause his legs inside of his prosthetic, right? 'Cause they go around the leg. So I put it right here on top. Instantly he goes, Whoa, that's crazy. I feel a it's like tingling all over my leg. And then in about 10 to 15 seconds, his shoulders are shaking. He looks up, I'm like, You okay? And then tears are coming down, and he's like, dude, I don't hurt. It doesn't hurt. He's like, This is the first time in 16 years it don't doesn't hurt. And I turn around in his this is what's crazy, is ninth grader, ninth grade boys. Are both bawling because they can't believe their dad doesn't hurt. Because it probably affects them more than it even affects him. Because he's probably miserable to even be around all the time, always hurting, always in pain. And dude, you just realized right then I just changed not just his life, but their life, and it was in 15 seconds. That's how crazy this thing is. Wow. And so people look at it and they're like, ⁓ is it a light wave patch? ⁓ is it? One of those other stupid things that has like essential oils or whatever else on it that you replace every three days. It's like this thing lasts a year. You noticed on there? Guaranteed for a year. Yeah. You can wear it every day for a year. It said reusable. And I was like, wait a minute, am I reading this right? Right? Like in no way. Right? That's like I I told my wife, Ly ⁓ honey, I don't know where I got this, but we're gonna give it to Jake, where he's gonna be our guinea pig. Let's see if it works. That's what I told her. I mean, honestly, 'cause I had no idea that you guys had sent me one because I you know, in my busy day to day, and I apologize for that, because what you're telling me, and this could be on any part of your body that hurts, correct? Like you could put that on your ankle if you needed to. ⁓ yes. Anywhere anywhere. Okay We we just created one for ⁓ we were we were actually in Washington, DC and we met Some of the secretaries, the undersecretaries of Donald Trump. One of them had really bad foot pain. And ⁓ so we built a patch. It's not for sale yet, but we built a we built one that goes in your shoe. Yeah. Foot pain gone. Dude, his doctor texts me the next day. This is crazy. It's the first time in six years he hasn't had pain. It's awesome. Like this thing is so rad. But this so we've done five sets of clinicals right now. 85% of people it will work for. That's crazy. Like what works 85% of people? Not very many things. Not very many. But 85% of people will work. And the average decrease in pain was 60%. So that's nuts. So it goes from like being unbearable to being totally manageable, like something you'd take an Advil for. Right. And and you and you can keep it on every single day. And it has a money back guarantee. In fact, we give you four it takes okay, eighty-five percent of people have something inside of most of them are inside of fifteen minutes. Some of them have to wait up to three days. We give people forty-five days to see if it works. Wow. And if they send it back after forty before forty-five days, they get all their money back. So zero risk. And we warranty it for a year. So it's like, what do you have to lose? So so many people I think are like my friend Matt. They've done everything. They've been to their doctor like twenty times. Right. At this point, that's just like the BS filter goes on when anyone says anything like, ⁓ I got this. Yeah, right, BS. ⁓ I got this. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Like you don't you don't even want to believe anything. Right. And I just want I'm I just want people who are sitting home that might be listening to this because I mean, dude, people, especially those I believe addicts are addicts a lot of times because it's the only way they can get away from the one thing that consumes them all day, which is the pain. Right. I mean, it's never ending. And this is a solution that's non-invasive, that we put nothing into the body that can work. It almost is like the more you hurt, the better it works. And it's just such a cool product to try out. And so I just encourage people and We're not FDA. We're still working on the FDA, but we're a health and wellness patch because we're non-invasive. Okay. And ⁓ and obviously approved with the VA. But dude, this is like the coolest thing is doctors learn about it, which we're slowly making our way through them. They're like floored. Like you you should see some of the doc I have some of the top doctors in the entire nation right now representing our patch because it like blew them away. Blew them away. And then they they called me. I didn't even seek them out. They called me and were like, how do I get involved? This is the craziest thing I've ever used. And it's just one of those things where it's like, but there's so many people who don't use it. And won't and don't try it because they think it's the same as some of that other stuff and it's just not. Well, I just well, after talking with you right now, I might have to tell Jake you're gonna hold off, but 'cause I'm gonna try this first. But you know what? It it's true though. Like you might have those doctors on the other hand that are scared of this new technology, right? Because it's gonna take money out of their pocket in a sense, right? Cause it's easy for them, right? Cause you said something in the beginning that has resonated with me and I've learned it from guests like you and other guests like that heal people and with other modalities, right? Which are non-evasive, non-medical, right? And the one thing you said that I believe is true is that yeah, we are made up of energy, right? Like we give off electrical fields, right? And depending on the state of mind we're in, we'll either give off a lot, right? Cause like fear and anger and stuff is a low, low vibration, right? Where Joy, happiness is much higher, right? And you know what I mean? And I've had so many guests now lately that, you know, without even saying anything, they'll go, you know, Max, we're like spiritual beings having a human experience. And, you know, the the better energy we give off, the better energy we receive and and and makes life better, right? Through connection, like what we're doing right now, right? Like and you know So I did an experiment, bro. I gotta tell you, right? Cause you're a cool dude. I I can already tell, right? So I did this experiment because I'm not into politics, trust me. I I I I don't like it because I'm I get pissed at both sides because you know what I mean? W I I just understand that the powers that be want to keep us down and they want us divided. But anyway, long story short, I posted this thing about the halftime show, right? And of course I got a bunch of good ones, but I got a bunch of haters. Like in an in people that I thought liked me were like, ⁓ you are one of them. I'm like, what do you mean? One of the one of them. And I didn't even say anything really bad. And I just said I watched the other one. I checked it out, right? Because as a veteran, right? As a a a veteran of the United States military, I said, I don't want to watch anyone that I have seen proof where he he doesn't like America. And two, he's burning our flag. So that's my choice, right? ⁓ you should have seen the response. You should have seen the responses. You would you probably get a kick out of him and go, Wow, man. Right? And one came from a family member that can't stand me now, right? Which I I I know her. She's my cousin's daughter. But it's like, wow, man, like you're gonna let this stuff really eat at you that bad and and then I rebutted today. I said I did an experiment and it was true, right? The government's got us to fight it because I said a certain opinion. All the ones on the other side came at me and all the ones on the other side who are like, ⁓ we love you still, Max. But anyway, that leads me to like what I was getting at is like we all need to connect. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle as they call it you're on. Like we're here to help each other. I mean, if you think about it. In the big grand scheme of things, if you believe in God or not, right, that's his whole thing is love and help each other, right? Is that's his main teaching is right. And we got Mike here, right, that has come up with a device or a patch, whatever you want to call it, that will help get rid of pain or help us manage our pain a lot better without having to put a synthetic Substance in our body, right? And I don't just say that from a recovering addict's point of view, right? Because here's my opinion. And I've seen it not only working in the addiction field, but myself, right? Like doctors are the biggest creators of addicts that I have ever seen. Because it's easy for them to go, take this, it'll make you feel better. Without thinking about what the really true consequences of that painkiller is gonna be, right? But There's it like to me, it's I think my purpose has been to, you know, one end the stigma of addiction and alcoholism, right? Because it's not every addict and alcoholic, like the alcoholic is not the everyone is not the guy sitting or the lady sitting behind a 7 Eleven with a, you know, drinking out of a brown paper bag, or the addict who's living out of a tent on Skid Row shooting dope, right? That's not I know doctors who have been addicted. I've known Ex military doctors who, you know, were addicted and got into recovery. And now some of the people that I've worked with, Mike, you would go, no way. Like, ask me, well, I have people ask me now, this to this day and age, they can't believe that I was an IV drug user at one point in my life. Right? Because I said, but see, that's the stigma, right? Like, but recovery does happen. Connection happens because like I'm here with Mike and he's talking about this great product that I think can help. So many people, and as you heard me jokingly say, like my son-in-law are is not gonna get it because I'm gonna use it first. But no, I I will keep my word and let him cause he works his butt off. You know, I work Dude, you just need to give me your address and I'll send you another one for him. I I will. But I got you. But I I you know, here I learn from guys like you, Mike. Like you said, you've been a serial entrepreneur since you got out of college, right? You've done your education, and but you know You know for a fact that your biggest education has been your experience as an entrepreneur, right? Because him and I were joking, right? Where I, you know, I told him, I said I was taught that, you know, it's not for the faint of heart because you're gonna learn how to fail. And if you're not willing to learn how to fail, you're not gonna make it as an entrepreneur because Well dude, that's that's funny you said that because I ⁓ so this is a belief. I'm a hundred percent on this belief. We teach people that eight out of ten businesses fell, but I'm ten for ten. My buddy Todd Peterson, so Todd, Ryan Smith that owns the jazz, I know these guys, right? But I've watched them do multiple businesses and they rarely fell. Like some of them never do, some of them rarely do. And then there's people who fell all the time. This is what I really believe. I think eight out of ten businesses do fail, but it's not the business. It's eight out of ten entrepreneurs don't have what it takes to do. But if you have what it takes, if you become that type of person, if you're able to work through crazy adversity, then you can actually, that's like the key to success. Right. And so I love entrepreneurism because I think it's learning how to win in life. Because, dude, I've been a paper millionaire. I think every business. I get let down on every business. It's like It never ends up what you like how you think it's going to be. And you always hit places where you could easily say, I'm gonna go bankrupt. We're not gonna make it. Right. But the guys that dig in that don't give up, they always find a way to work through that and then they get there. Right. But sometimes we see these little unicorn guys that that do make it easy, which is har very rare. And we think that's the norm. And it's not the norm. Right. So I think being an entrepreneur is all about being a winner, dude. It's about like you learn it in sports, but it's It's like being an addict. How hard is it to get over that? Right. That same that same attitude that it takes to get over that is actually what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. And I just don't think people get it sometimes. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Cause I I actually watched ⁓ a TED talk of a CEO of a software company for hospitals, right? Their scheduling or whatever, and he's a recovery and recovering addict and he talks about like this is what CEO should do, right? Is surrender the results, right? Do what you gotta do every day. I mean, I can't remember it all, but ⁓ I think you're correct, right? Because that's like all the greats, like yourself, let's I'm gonna put you up there, right? Like the Steve Jobs, ⁓ like one of my favorite podcasters, if you know who I'm talking about, is Andy Forsella, right? They talk about ⁓ their failures, right? Like ⁓ But it's not the failures, it's that they didn't quit on themselves, right? Like how I can imagine being in business for ten years and you go, damn, I'm only made fifty thousand dollars in ten years. Like you're right. I think the ones who don't have that grit or you know, the wherewithal or the fortitude to go, I'm still gonna keep going, right? No matter what. Right? 'Cause now he's a multi-millionaire. He earns he he owns first four. Well, by the way, that's the actu ⁓ Ten years is actually the average for when a business turns the corner and gets big. Ten years. Takes ten years for it to like blossom. Which is a long time. That is a long time. But that's why you gotta have like what I'm hearing you say is that's why you gotta have skin in the game, which means you gotta keep going no matter. So talk about some of those challenges. I want you to talk about some of those challenges you've gone through that have made You who you are today that have shaped your character that like people need to hear this, right? It's because you know, like you could I I'm sure in some of your businesses you had those moments where like I'm quitting, man. This shall this shit sucks. I'm done, right? But you also had that other side that took over and said, No, you're not. We're gonna keep going, we're gonna make this work, right? Because that's how As they say, winning is done, right? It's not quitting on yourself and you keep going, right? You know, it's it's interesting. I I'd have to go all the way back ⁓ when I was in high school. ⁓ so when I was in high school, I I told myself the lie that my friends don't matter. I'm not doing stuff, they're not gonna affect me. All the dumb stuff we do, right? Right. Really, you do become who you hang with, period. But ⁓ but I was like, I'm not drinking, I'm not not sleeping with girls, I'm doing I'm in I'm good. Right. Well, people that watched who I was hanging out with, because I was a boxer and a wrestler. So Okay. Right. I boxed and I wrestled and I was good at it. And all my friends were boxers and wrestlers. So you know who my friends were. And I hung out with them. I was a wrestler. And I loved them, right? So but there's people in the community that go up to my brothers and be like, Hey, you need to make sure you don't do this stuff so you don't turn out like your brother. And I'd hear this stuff and it would like hurt me. It's like, I'm not a bad person, right? And I got this like chip on the shoulder where I'm going to prove everyone wrong at a young age. Like I some people like shrink from that and they're like they they shrink into themselves and they feel sorry for themselves and they feel bad. I actually reacted the opposite way, where it was like a chip on my shoulder. I'll prove you wrong. Right. And so I go on a mission for the church. And I don't just go on the mission. I'm going on the mission to tell to show everyone that I can teach more people than anyone, give more book Mormons out than anyone, bring more people to Christ than anyone. And I totally smashed it, right? And then I come back and they see they have summer cells. And ⁓ my roommate ends up being come up, dude, my roommate pulls up. ⁓ when I I'm I'm just at college and all of a sudden this dude pulls in and this is in ⁓ 2000. So that's when Broncos were cool. He comes in in a brand new Ford Bronco and he's got this trailer and he opens the trailer up and pulls out a Harley. And this is like, we're 20 years old. I'm like, dude, this kid must be like spoiled rich kid from I wonder who his parents are. Right. Well, I find out he comes from a single mom, and he was just really good at selling pest control door to door. Well, instantly my head's like, well, if he's that good at it, I'll be better. ⁓ So I'm I'm competitive, right? So so I went out and I was really good at summer sales. And that just kind of like, and it just carried on from there. And then he started this satellite retailer, and ⁓ it was growing, and so Two thousand four, I started this company called Dish One Satellite. By two thousand ten, it was the largest retailer in the nation for Dish. Wow. Okay. Two thousand nine, I decide that I need to go get my MBA or I'm not gonna get it because I'm getting too busy. So I go to school at the same time I'm running this huge retailer. And I decide, cause I'm crazy, that I'm gonna start a pest company because I used to sell it so bad. Back when I was selling, I actually ended up being the top sales guy in the nation for pest control. So I was like, dude, I can do this. So I'm gonna start a pest company. So I went out and hired a hundred sales reps. And I hired and we weren't we started in four states. ⁓ I think it was Washington, DC, ⁓ Norfolk, Virginia, Tennessee, and Boise, Idaho. So I'm like, we're gonna start in those four places. We're launching this. I hire the techs, I buy the trucks, I send everyone out to their areas, and I'm in school now because on the weekends I'm in school trying to get my MBA at the U. Well, Dan Marriott that introduced me to the patch is in that class. ⁓ bunch of entrepreneurs actually a bunch of business owners and another one was actually the CEO you know the pigskin potato chips no they're out of North Carolina the CEO of that company was in my class okay and he was like one of my best friends and I I really connected with him and Daniel and David all guys I work with still and anyway Ray sees me across the class and he sees my whole face go white And what had happened is I opened up my computer and an email came through. And this is 2010, right after. Remember the crash? Right. Yeah. So two weeks before I launched the summer, I have a hundred reps recruited. I already have guys in the areas. I've already signed leases on offices and bought trucks. I need a million-dollar line to actually fund everything because I didn't have enough cash. Dish one was growing like crazy. I'm like this young entrepreneur. I'm like, Worth a lot of money with zero cash because it's all I can my businesses. And then the bank emails me and says, sorry to inform you, but the line of credit that we gave you for your business, we're gonna have to pull. We can't fund it anymore. And I'm like, I don't have any funding. I have no money. So boom, pell white. What do most people do in these scenarios? I'm gonna go bankrupt. Yeah. I'm gonna quit. I have no money. How am I gonna get a million dollars in two weeks? Not gonna be able to do that, right? All those thoughts were going through my head. So I get out there in the hall and Ray comes out. Bro, are you okay? I'm like, no, man, this is what happened. I tell him about the bank thing. And then Ray grabs my shoulder and he says, Dude, then why are you here? Go get your stuff and get your butt out there and raise the money. You have two weeks to get it. And I'm like, You're right, dude. You're right. And I go in there and I pack up and I leave class and I just start hitting the road. I look up every entrepreneur in the Utah area. I go knock their doors down. I show them a business plan for my pest company. I swear to them what I'm gonna do with it. I got a guy two days before the summer started, literally 10 days later, I got a guy to sign an $800,000 check over to me with a handshake, no contract. Wow. And so You're like, ⁓ that's amazing. Well, dude, that's just the beginning. We got that company turned around. We build it up. We sold it. It worked, right? Right. Dish actually, that one worked out. No big deal. Well, one of the big exits I just had was a large landscape company. I built out a large landscape company to be, I didn't even know actually. I just like to grow things. Right. And then a company from Chicago, actually a big VC company from Chicago came and hit us up and wanted to buy us. About eight months ago. And I found out that I was the largest landscaper in the state and Wyoming, Wyoming and Idaho. And I didn't even know I didn't know that. I was like, ⁓ we're that big. So we anyway, we sold it off. So everyone's always like, bro, how did you buy MD? Cause I bought it in 2019. Right. Okay. ⁓ when I bought MD, I I bought a company for around $20 million. They gave me PL profit and loss statements that showed that it was making over $2 million a year for 10 years. So I buy it. The first day I show up, the CEO asked me to come in. She's like, hey, I need you to transfer $600,000 to us right now, or we're not going to make payroll. And like, what do you mean we're not going to make payroll? Well, you're fighting out and like, what? So, like, what? So I I put a lot of money down on that business, but my mortgage payment on the money I did have to borrow was still around $200,000 a month. Plus, she needs $600 grand to make payroll. Right. So I start digging into it and find out, I had to fire her actually. It was fraud, but she was f stealing money from the company. ⁓ man. And long story short. There was a bunch of fake tree inventory, and the business actually had lost 400,000 that year, not made two million. Wow. So again, you're in a business. I bought it with a with a business partner, actually. I was 65, he was 35 at the time. And ⁓ we sat down, and dude, all those thoughts crossed our mind. We're like, these things. negative forty thousand a month and we have a mortgage payment of two hundred, how do we ever get over this hump, right? Again, a lot of people would be like, ⁓ crap, dude, I'm gonna go bankrupt. I'm done. I'm gonna sue the guy that sold this to us, right? But if you think about it, if I go sue him, I still have all the banknotes. I still have to make those payments. So suing him or do I put all my effort into figuring out how to make this thing profitable? Right. So we started looking at it and noticed that it had great margins. He just We need to double the size of it. We needed to go from 15 million to 22 million to get over the hump. And so, dude, we did it. That that year we finished, we actually grew it to just under 22 million. We made 800,000 profit year one, two million year two, three and a half million year four, three. We finished right last year before we sold it, seven and a half million in profit. Like we five hundred percent of the company. And so instead of like giving up, we went to the bank and said, You need to give us a loan for another seven million dollars for equipment because the only way we can save this is to grow it. And we and we bought it under false pretenses. This is reality. And the bank believed in us and gave us the loan and we made it happen. And so I think again, I think life is like this. So people see the successes we have and they're like, ⁓ how are you so successful? Well, dude, I don't think we're that great. I think I just don't give up. I don't, I don't automatically go to, ⁓ I'm beat. ⁓ I'm gonna quit. I automatically am always looking for what do I need to do now to fix and turn this thing around? How are we gonna get out of this? Where where do we need to get money? And and you were actually digging into this, but so many people actually Like we tell ourselves and our subconscious, like, what happens? You're knocked a door knocker. I'm gonna go for his salesman. He's knocking on a door. Someone opens the door, they're like, Why are you all knocking on the door? And they slam the door. What does that sales rep tell himself? Right. I know, I knew they weren't gonna get it. This job sucks. Everyone's mean to me. And it's like you're programming yourself right there for total defeat. Right. See. I'm one of the top guys. I still get the same amount of doors slammed on me, but when I do it, I'm like, dick. And I go to the next one, I'm like, dude, you know what I mean? It's like absolutely, right? And so it's like, yeah. So so are we the type of person that that like, what do we tell ourselves? Do we beat ourselves up or do we find ways to become winners? And I feel like that's what it is in life and sports in so many ways, but An addict's no different. I know because my brother was one. And I'm the one that actually sent him through rehab and you at the Cirque Lodge. ⁓ rehab. Yeah, that place is no joke. But they're good. And no joke. And he was he was crazy, man. Like he was an addict, right? And so I know what he had to go through to get through that and the type and what how he had to change the way he thought. It really was actually, it came down to counseling and changing the way he thought. And the way he was processing information to be able to get through that. And I'm just lucky I've never been that type of person. But I think you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to be an eternal optimist. You have to be a realist, but you have to look for the way to win. Absolutely. And and that's why some people call me Mr. Positivity. They're always smiling. You always got a good, you know. I said, well, because I've been on the other side. I know what it, you know, what it feels like to wake up and go. Damn, I woke up today. That sucks. You know what I mean? Like, but you're right. And and you know, you've been around a lot of people that are very successful. And I bet you they'll all tell you it's what you think about comes about, right? If I'm for instance, if I would have s like started my day, you know, I hate to say like with my panties in a wad, all pissed off and why this is gonna I I don't know what I'm gonna talk to Mike about. It's gonna you know, it would show up. Right. But I always wake up going, you know what? I don't care how it goes. I'm gonna have fun doing it. I'm gonna make my guests feel comfortable. I'm gonna make them feel like, hey man, I wanna talk to Max because we got some stuff to talk about. And hopefully we touch some people's lives that are listening. Right. Because I could have given up so many times. And trust me, I I I had that ⁓ before I got sober many times if if I make it to sleep, God, please just let me stay asleep. I don't wanna wake up. You know, I've had those I even in sobriety, Mike. Let me tell you, at year five, I had the worst depression that I've ever experienced in my lifetime. And it was every day I would wake up like, ⁓ here we go again. I don't want to live. I can't do this. And I had all the good things going on in my life, right? Like there was really nothing bad in my life going on. But I'd learned from those experiences that that stuff's temporary, right? And it's how I look at a situation, right? And how who do I surround myself with, right? Because you said it earlier, right? We are a direct reflection of the five closest people we hang out with, right? So if I'm hanging out with a bunch of drug addicts, eventually Max is going to become one again, right? Or if I'm hanging around a bunch of mics, I'm going to be the next millionaire because I'm going to learn and I'm going to have an open mind. And you know what I mean? I'm going to learn from these guys. Because that's what I was taught to do by my mentors and my sponsor in the program, right? Like, look, this is you don't have to do this by yourself. That's one thing I learned that has made life for me a lot easier is that I don't have to do it alone. Right. And I can I can be the best me I can be. And if no one likes it, that's tough, right? Because it's none of my business what people think about me anyway. Right. But my motto that I learned early on, especially after my last relapse mic was. ⁓ I heard it in a meeting was be helpful to some and harmful to none. And if I carry that on and my, you know what I mean? Like, even in that experiment, I told you about this Facebook thing, and it's like I I told the P I still love you guys. Like, I'm still gonna be Max. Whether you like me now or not, doesn't matter to me. I like who I see in the mirror and I'll still love you. If you need me, I'm here to support you. You know what I mean? Like. Sorry. There's too much hate in this world. Like we need to love each other more. I I tell you what, I so I'm red, right? I'm a r I'm a Republican for sure when it comes to policies, except for healthcare. I actually am a hundred percent blue on government health care. I think we should have health care for everyone. Right. But I also don't understand why we have to not love each like why do we have to hate each other? Why isn't it okay for people to have different points of opinions? Like it should Well, hey, can you remember? We have to attack each other. Well, can you remember when you're a kid you had arguments, but like you might fight it out, but the next day your friend like you forgot about it, we're friends again. Like, hey, that was stupid. Whatever. My sister in law is as blue as you could possibly be, and she's the best human. I love her. Right. I love spending time with her. I love the way she raises her kids. Like Why can't we just like seriously respect each other and care for each other? And I mean, there needs to be way more of that, man. There's way too much. Here's my thought about it. A lot of it is social media's fault. It's a lot of the media's fault, right? They plant those things so that we could, you know, look at each other and go, I don't like Mike because he's this, right? Like you're right. That's stupid. Like, I mean I like to be non-judgmental, right? Because I don't know. For me, the only one that I have to answer to is God in the end, right? Because He's gonna judge what I've done on this earth, you know, and I've made I am not Sister Teresa by any means, right? Like I made I I have made mistakes and I continue to make mistakes, but you know what? One day at a time, I try to put my best foot forward. And I'll tell you something, and you might like this, right? Cause after my last relapse, it's in our literature and our AA meetings, but it never really sank with me. But I saw it on the wall. It's called I am responsible, right? And it says, When anyone anywhere cries out for help, let the hand of AA be there. And for that I'm responsible. But what happened was is before I read that, my sponsor said, You need to take that AA out of there. And that means if anyone anywhere, period, cries out for help, let your hand be there. And because you need to get outside of yourself or you're going to continue this. s vicious cycle of in and out, in and out. And you know what? I'm here over 22 years later because of stuff like that, right? Because of guys like you that won't pat me on the butt and go, hey Max, everything's gonna be okay. Right. Because my I was told if that happens, run the other way because it's not true. Right. But to be helpful, to always try to have be kind, to love on my fellow human being and And do the best I can as a father, as a son, as a husband, and as now as a grandfather, right? To me, that's some big responsibility, right? Am I if I'm on here hating on the world, or if I'm on social media hating on the world, or a certain idea whatever your opinion, then it's all for nothing. 'Cause go ahead. I love what you're saying, Max, because I think ⁓ so I just got released, but the last three years I was a bishop for the LDS Church, Latter-day Saint church, ⁓ for college kids. And so I had a college ward of basically 150 college kids. And I'll tell you what I learned. What I learned is all of us are messed up. And I think what Satan does is he tries to make us feel like something's so wrong with us and we just don't fit in. Right. But the truth is no one talks about all their crap, but they all got a lot of it. And I think We spend way too much time, I think, pointing fingers at each other when we just need to realize that, dude, it's not it doesn't it's up to that's between you and Jesus. All that stuff. For us, we just need to love each other, care for each other, serve each other, and be there for each other, and also realize that we're just as messed up ourselves. So absolutely I I feel like sometimes we we always raise ourselves up above people. And I feel like culturally that's where churches sometimes get it wrong is when they when you have this thing where you're like, Hey, I don't drink, I don't do this, I'm not, I'm keeping all the commandments, so I'm like here, right? Right, right. But the truth is, is like, who cares where we are? None of us are where Christ was, and that's where we all have to get. And so why don't we just help lift each other? Like No matter where we are, let's lift each other up. And I think when you're talking about who you spend your time with, we need to not ever hate, like we should love everyone. But if you're spending time with people who don't lift you, if you're the one doing the lifting, you're hanging out with the wrong guys, man. You need to surround yourself with people who you feel like you're al they're always inspiring you to be better or you don't get better. That's the problem. But it's all about progression. Absolutely, right? And and just so everybody knows, right? We're not trying to push any certain thing here, like AA, got whatever, right? But you know, Mike and I are God fearing men and he's right, right? We sh we were put on this earth to love each other and to support each other, service you know what I mean, and be of service to each other. And I I like what you said, Mike, because ⁓ it's just a crazy world out there, right? And guys like me and you, right? They why those guys smiling so much, right? Like It's because we love, we love being around people. We love helping each other, whoever the case may be. and ⁓ you know, and it sounds like, you know, you and I could sit on this podcast today for a couple hours easy, just talking about life and how right how entrepreneurship kind of parallels life, right? And how even in life, right, you're gonna fall, you're gonna take some lumps, but it's how you respond to those challenges that's gonna get you through, right? Are you gonna ⁓ you know, like in our recovery world, it there's it I won't say it, but it's F everything and run or face everything and recover, right? And I've been at both sides, right? But ⁓ today I choose to face everything and recover or thrive or survive, whatever you want to call it, because I think, right, if we don't. What about the people like our kids and grandkids coming behind us? What are they seeing if we're not being those guys that we're talking about right now, Mike? Because they see, right? You think no one's watching. I guarantee you, you got kids watching and you got grandkids watching, right? And you got the whole world watching. And but I'm blessed to be here with Mike today and have this conversation, right? So we can talk about. Like what he says, what it takes not to quit on yourself, to keep going. You know what I mean? It's just like you gotta ask yourself those tough questions, right? And this is what I like, Michael. This is what I was telling. Remember, Max, when you're pointing your finger, you got three pointing back at you. So you better stop and look in the mirror before you as my sponsor kindly puts it, he goes, Don't do not pass up the two opportunity to keep your mouth shut. And that has been a lifesaver for me at times, because you know, in and moments of anger or you know it's easy, you know, we could say stuff and then go as soon as we say it, I don't know about you. I'm speaking for myself, but I went, dang, I shouldn't have said that. Like, ⁓ I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that, right? And sorry. And sometimes sorry is not going to cut it, right? So, you know, but that, you know, I this has been a great conversation. I mean, like I said, we could keep going for hours and hours, but I want to ask you the questions that I jokingly Told you I don't remember a lot, but I do remember these ones, right? So we're gonna talk about fearless, especially, you know, in the entrepreneur world, right? And you know this very well. So what does fearless mean to you today, Mike, going through what you've been through, and how does that show up in your life on a daily basis? You know, I ⁓ one of my favorite business coaches was John Maxwell. I don't know if you've ever read his books. I have one of it on Audible matter of fact. So I I've read I've listened to one of his books. I haven't read it, but so one of the things he taught me early, early on is he he he said, ⁓ I want you to imagine your life, what it would be like if you lost everything. Physically, not your family, but like I lost my house, my cars. And I started and I sat there and I thought about it forever. And I was like, Dude, I'm not even afraid of that, actually. Like all my happiness is with my family. And if I lost my houses and everything and had to start over, it's not that big of a deal. Like I could do that. Right. And so that perspective helped me because I think so many times fear is actually the main thing that causes us to pause or not take action. I mean, how many times have we all spent like, ⁓ you see something on TV and you're like, I knew that would work because you thought about it like three years before, right? And you didn't do anything because we get afraid. And we and that and it and as a result, we end up not taking action. And I think in life we have to get to a point, and I think it's about having perspective. But if you can get perspective of where your real happiness comes from, you'll realize that a lot of that crap that you're afraid of doesn't even matter. And you don't have to be afraid of it. And I feel like for me as an entrepreneur, the not being afraid of losing physical possessions has been huge because I've been able to take enormous risks. Right. Which I've had to, I mean, go and take and think about MD. When negative, $200,000 mortgage. And I say, let's go borrow, because the only way to grow is to buy more. excavators, more skidsters. That was eight million more dollars of stuff I had to go buy. It's more debt. So the risk. But in my mind I didn't have that fear of losing out on everything. And I think and and that's going to be different for everyone, but you need to find a place of peace. And I think a lot of that is you have to really go introspectively into yourself and find out what it is that you really do need and realize that other stuff doesn't matter. Cherish the stuff that matters most, protect that stuff. Right. And then go hardcore after the other stuff. And it's a game. It's like playing a monopoly to me. Like I have fun. Business is so fun for me. And I love it. And I and and a lot of people just hate that risk and it stresses them out. But I've never felt that because I have so much happiness just with my wife and my kids. And I know that as long as I have them, I'm a rich man. So good. I love it. Well, that leads me into happiness, right? Like, and I put a Y in it. I did it for a reason. So expand on that. What does happiness mean to you? And what does that look like in your life on a daily basis? ⁓ honestly, for me, happiness is ⁓ it's the things that bring me joy. And ⁓ I love my kids, I love spending time with them. I love I have like the best wife. I will I lucked out, man. My wife is so supportive and awesome. And she had like the worst husband ever because I was never home. I had like ten businesses. I was she was raising kids. We had six kids, four of them in five years. ⁓ wow. And sh it was so hard on her sometimes. And I remember I remember one time coming home and And I and I was trying to be a good dad, but I I also had all these things pulling my attention. And I was, you're trying to keep everyone happy, right? So life's always out of balance. Right. I remember coming home one night and my wife was rocking in a chair. She was holding one of my kids, who was a baby at the time, and tears were in her eyes. I'm like, Babe, are you okay? She's like, I just want my mom and dad. I just want to see my parents. And I felt, I've never felt so low. Like I realized you didn't you don't need to say a ton right there. It's like I suck. Right. And I think so many she she had every reason to hold on to those shortcomings because that's like me falling short and hold it against me. But my wife, what I love about my wife, ⁓ look at this stud. I love about my wife is that she forgave me and she allowed me to be human. And she allowed me to keep trying to do better and to find that balance. And ⁓ dude, I just find happiness is ⁓ to me, is the things that bring you joy. And for me, that's been the gospel of Jesus Christ to my family. Knowing that I can be with my family forever, knowing that I can receive forgiveness for the stupid things that I do all the time, which is all the time. Right. And and And then just knowing that no matter what happens, I always have people who are gonna love me for me. Regardless of what I do. And I have that in my family. And I think some people don't, and that makes it a lot harder, right? But I do have that. And I luck I feel like a lucky man for that. You are a lucky man for that, right? We are lucky men for having that love, no matter what, that support. No matter how many as my mom would say sometimes, idiotic things I would do, she would still Right. There's a big reason I'm sober today is because of her because she never gave up on me. She made tough love, but she never gave up. And I love it. That's awesome, Mike. Thank you so much. ⁓ like I said, this has been ⁓ dude, I I just noticed a text. They gave you a code for this. Did they if they if people go to the website, yeah, signalrelief.com and they type in Max, they actually get fifty dollars off the patch. So all your listeners can go get these for fifty dollars off and they still get the one year guarantee and the money back guarantee, all that stuff's still there. ⁓ you heard that, everybody. Well, see, that's I knew this well that leads me into this one. If if people want to get a hold of you, Mike, they want to pick your brain, they want to talk about your product, get to know your product even better and just get to know you as a human being, right? Like the awesome dude that I've got to meet for the last hour. Right? How do they get a hold of you? ⁓ they can email me ⁓ mike at signalrelief dot com is my email. All right. And they can definitely reach out. We're always we try to take time. I mean, honestly, if they have questions, th also they can call our customer service line. So they'll I'm usually around, they can find us there, but I'll reach out to you and if you need me to call you, leave me your number, I'll I'll reach out to people for sure. Yeah, you haven't heard very many CEOs, did you? You better take Mike up on this. I love it. All right, man. Well, you know, like I said, won an awesome time, man. I know you and I could keep going. I'm sure your son over there would probably have some input if we kept going, right, bud? But if you can hear it, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Okay. If if you're not quite off the hook just yet. Now I get to ask you my favorite question that I ask of all my guests. And I always say the best for last. And it goes like this. So, Mike. What is the one piece of advice you could give my audience to help them grow as human beings and become better people? My favorite book is The Answer. It's a John Asraff The Answer. And it's about basically the power of the subconscious mind. And ⁓ I think that a lot of times when we become addicts, it's because of what we're actually telling ourselves behind the scenes. And I saw that with my brother and I dealt with it a lot actually working with the college kids. And ⁓ I don't know what it's gonna take to change that. But if you can see yourself for what you actually are and who you really can become, if you can look at your potential and focus on that, ⁓ I truly believe that what a man thinks about is actually what he becomes every single time. And I think if you look at your life, your life is a reflection of what your internal thoughts are all the time. ⁓ you can't say, I want to be successful and then tell yourself all day long that you suck. And expect it to actually happen. And so stop the negative talk, start believing in yourself, start loving yourself, right? Really? It's like we don't just need to love others. The hardest part is loving ourselves. The hardest part is actually forgiving ourselves because yeah, I learned that with my brother. So I'm gonna leave you with this last thought. I think all of us do this too much. My brother was at addict with Corosedon. He was popping like 30, 40 pills a day, and ⁓ it was bad. I mean, he thought he was Jesus. He was in an insane asylum for a few months. He got out. ⁓ the effect it has on all the family members, right? We start saying things to ourselves like, he just needs to hit a low. He just needs when he hits his low, we just need to ignore him till all the things that we do, right? Right. Well, we're sitting at a Christmas, we we were actually, it was Christmas Eve. My grandma was 80. Five years old at the time. And I think old people get this just from being around. But we're talking about Ryan, and we were like, Grandma, you gotta stop letting Ryan come in your house. He's still in my cause he was stealing money from her to buy his Corseedon, right? Right. And we're saying our stuff. And then my other brother's like, Mom and Dad, you need to quit letting him be in the house when our kids are over. We have him around the kids. And all of a sudden, my grandma gets up. And I'm the leader kind of in my family, because I'm the oldest. Right. So My grandma comes up, she grabs me, she's four foot ten, and I'm six two. So she grabs my collar, she pulls me down, and she goes, You guys don't get it. And I'm like, What, grandma? And she's like Till this family learns that the only thing that's ever gonna help Ryan is love. You are never going to fix the problem. And it was like a rebuke. Yeah. Well, right then my brother walks in because he'd been sleeping all day. So he'd missed it. The door opens. He's walking into grandma's house. It was like, dude, God was in the whole moment. And the whole family's sitting there. And he's looking at the floor and turning the corner because he doesn't want to look at us. So he's looking at the floor. He already feels like. how we feel about him, right? Right. ⁓ I'm like, Ryan. He's like, what? And I just turned around and grabbed him and said, Dude, I just want you to know that I love you, bud. And I hugged him. All my brothers got up and started hugging him. And then his shoulders started to shake. And he said I know you guys think that I haven't hit my low. I know you guys hate me. I feel it every day. He's like, I don't think I could ever be any lower. I don't think I could hate myself any worse. I just don't know how to get over it and I don't know what to do. Right. And that's when I was like, bro. Do you want to go to a rehab? And he goes, I'll do anything. And I said, You find a rehab you want to go to and give it to me. And he gives me Circ Lodge. You know what that means. Yeah. Luckily, we were able to pay for it. And we sent him there, dude. And it was like it was the third one he'd gone to. And he was able to actually kick it that time. And the psychiatrist that worked with him, because there you have a psychiatrist three times a day, every day. Yeah. Right. And It started when he was like twelve, and the teacher told him that why was he so stupid and flunking and he just internalized it. And then all of this negative self-talk, even though he was like a popular kid and you thought he had a lot of friends, what was really going on behind the scenes was just all this crap, right? many times. Yeah. And I think we do such a bad job sometimes, like It's like the parent that tries to guilt their kid into not doing something stupid. And they actually make it worse. Right. Cause then the kid never wants to like deal with it because he doesn't want to like be told that he's stupid. Right. Yeah. And I think we just need to spend way more time not judging each other and loving each other and loving ourselves. Cause letting go of our issues, letting go of the issues we have is the hardest part. And I think the thing that causes the most internal pain and I think causes drug addiction is I think more than people call it selfishness all the time. I actually think it's ⁓ inability to let go of and forgive yourself for the stupid things you do is what causes it. That's a big That's my opinion. That's a good opinion 'cause that's a yeah telling for one c recovering addict, yeah. I I know how your brother felt and I know how you feel. 'Cause I I've been through it, right? Both as a recovering guy and as a parent of some recovering addicts. You know what I mean? And Yeah, I knew this was gonna be an amazing time. Like again, thank you for doing me the honor of being here. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Mike. It's been an awesome time. We're gonna have to I will have a little chat with you after, but this was an amazing time, right? I love it. And you heard him, everybody. If Mike made you think, if Mike made you, if he taught you something, if Mike made you smile, and Mike Famous, if Mike made you go, hmm, I like that. Please go to iTunes and leave a five-star review so more people can find the podcast. And then come join us on my new YouTube channel where you can see Mike and I have this, not only hear us, but see us have this amazing conversation. So again, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in this world. This is Max from the Fearless Happiness Podcast. Until next time. Are you tired of being weighed down by life's traumas and struggles? Join the Fearless Happiness Lifestyle and let us guide you toward a brighter future. Explore our past podcast episodes and get a copy of the Fearless Happiness book to ignite your inner strength. If you or someone you love is battling addiction or facing challenges related to unresolved trauma, know that we are here for you. Visit maxnates.org, M-A-X. N-I-J-S-T.org and take the first steps toward finding your fearless happiness. Thank you for listening. This has been a production of Fearless Happiness.